UPR

[Seer]

I just sent Kelly some walmart t shirts.

 

[WILECYOT]

I'm not coming in here to throw my weight around but a lot of these parts are not that hard to design. An adjustable panhard bar or adjustable lower control arms aren't huge achievements. I must say a lot of companies like to charge a shit ton for a Chromoly bar with Heim Joints on the end. For something that costs maybe $50 in material, less if you mass order, it doesn't make sense to me to charge 200 bucks for it.

 

[Blackbird1084]

It had nothing to do with r&d costs. The product I made hasn't had a patent on it for 50 years. It's been the same for the last 50 years. It didn't even go to a competitor. The jobs were shipped to a company owned by my previous employer. It was 100% about bottom dollar and gross profit. This company is a fortune 500 company that makes over $4 billion a year with profits in the $500-750 million area. I've already said twice that I would go with the innovators of the parts for my car, but I can't afford the more expensive parts. I never said knockoffs were good for the industry or the innovators of the products. Sometimes life happens and great value coco rice is all you can afford even if you really want general mills coco pebbles (horrible analogy I know). Stkjock- have you ever been laid off due to real out sourcing or been tight on money for long periods of time because of losing your job?

 

[CPRsm]

....... they called me because "I figured you would know more about this, since the design was taken from you"

Yeah fuck that.

..... it doesn't make sense to me to charge 200 bucks for it.

It wouldn't if you didn't have a fab shop and understand the over head. I can't blame you either. But even at let's says 30 bucks in material which is even cheaper than it costs I'm SURE. Someone has to be paid to bend and weld it all up. A good welder. Those cost more than 8 bucks and hours. Machine up keep on the bender, welder, supplies and electricity. Half the taxes, medicare and social security of the employee on top of his hourly rate, and rent. Then the best part is the UNGODLY expensive product insurance for a part like that. Then god forbid the owner should make anything. Trust me, no one is getting rich off a set off control arms, or 100 of them. .

 

[Blackbird1084]

Correct. But saying it's lighter is only one side of the two edged sword you're being told. I don't ever see it mentioned they thin their k-member out. Must have been if it's lighter.


Very true. But to me not an excuse to knock off any product. You may feel differently as well as your company develops and you put money and pride into a design.

I first learned about companies using thinner chromoly tubing over mild steel when I was riding bmx bikes almost 20 years ago. They dealer would go over every detail about the bikes with us before we bought them. He explained that the tubing was around 25% thinner on chromoly bikes than on mild steel bikes to reduce weight but keep the same (or slight increase) in strength. With k-members being lighter your putting less overall load on it to begin with dropping the required strength needed to keep the part from breaking.

 

[stkjock]

I never said what went down was acceptable or ok. The principle is the same in my view. I did ask a simple yes or no question which you didn't answer.

Stkjock- have you ever been laid off due to real out sourcing or been tight on money for long periods of time because of losing your job?

Not that your question has anything to do with the topic.

Never laid off due to out sourcing.

Tight on money - yes. I started a business at 24, invested my life savings (85K at the time) and lost all but 5k. Took me about 5 - 6 years before I had "real" money again. I worked 7 days a week, two jobs, had little money for much other then paying for commuting and my then Mustang (which got stolen) and was replaced by a 2 door Neon.

 

[Blackbird1084]

Your previous situation sounds just as shitty as my current one. Then having been tight on money I'm sure you understand that you buy things you wouldn't normaly buy when your broke to just get by. No I'm not ok with losing that job and only being able to find a job at a $4+ dollar an hour pay cut. But like I said there was no competitor involved it was the company out sourcing to a company it owned for nothing more than gross profit. And I don't know how I didn't answer your question. I said that if I had the funds I would hands down buy from the innovators them selves and not purchase them imitators product. I would think that would have been seen as a "NO I don't think it's right."

 

[stkjock]

Your previous situation sounds just as shitty as my current one. Then having been tight on money I'm sure you understand that you buy things you wouldn't normaly buy when your broke to just get by.

yes, I very much do understand, even now, though I can afford certain things, I chose not to spend as I have certain responsibilities (2 kids) that I expect to have to spend substantial amounts of money on in the future. As well as wanting to retire and go racing!

 

[AnotherS197GT]

No offense Blackbird, but if I lost my job, the last thing on my mind would be performance parts. Although I do understand wanting to save a buck here and there when I am buying parts.

 

[Blackbird1084]

I also have 2 kids(6,3) and even though they are both only in t-ball (well my daughter has gymnastics also) they are already racking up bills. I hope to retire in a good position and I plan to continue racing till I'm dead even if it's a busted old minivan(I really hope it's not lol).

 

[SRTthis]

every time this whole copied design thing comes up i feel the need to bring this up...

as some of you know im a designer... i design tools for a living. many of you own tools ive worked on designs of over the years. so its safe to say ive seen some "copies" of my designs over the years. the guys here are taking this being copied the wrong way. at first i was a lil mad. but i thought of all the ways to do something they copied the design i did. kind of makes you feel good about your work. and while they were copying the design i was coming behind it with a new design for something else.

basicly my thoughts are on this stop worrying about being copied. be the innovator come up with the next big thing while people are out coping the old design. at that point they are always playing catch up.

but maybe thats just me...

 

[Blackbird1084]

I lost that job in January and have since found a job(making less money as of now). One of the only reasons I'm able to buy parts is because 90% of my bills are now paid off. I have 1 car payment and my house. The second is because I have sold parts off my other cars that I'm no longer using. Believe me I was on edge hearing all the people I know who have been unemployed for over 6 months because they can't find a job. I was fortunate to find a job that pays as close to my old job in this area as $40k a year is seen as a lot of money here. I hope to advance to a similar position (machine master technician) at my new job. But starting over with no seniority makes that almost impossible(until someone retires).

 

[CPRsm]

Derek, that's not a bad line of thought, but maybe more of the designer mentality than the guy who gets made to produce the part being copied? IE, you get paid either way to design it. It's nice to be ahead and have others copy I suppose, but bragging doesn't pay the bills. Selling the parts do.

 

[SRTthis]

Derek, that's not a bad line of thought, but maybe more of the designer mentality than the guy who gets made to produce the part being copied? IE, you get paid either way to design it. It's nice to be ahead and have others copy I suppose, but bragging doesn't pay the bills. Selling the parts do.

yea it helps to have a long list of idea's and release them 1 by 1 and when one comes out the next ones coming right behind it. by the time everyone else catches up your on to something else. but i do get what your saying

 

[Weou09]

So BB - if the prior company you worked for had to lay you off because a competitor had reversed engineered the products you made, sold them at 50% of the cost (% made up) because they had no R&D to recoup - then you wouldn't have minded losing the job?

Do you ever see a company lower a price because money was recouped from R&D or machine cost or material cost lowered? The only time I see prices go down and stay down is when demand goes down and stays down. I am sorry but I don't see things the way most of you guys do. No company as done me any favors and I do not do them any favors. I had a similar conversation with my uncle about two gas stations by my house(one owned by an Indian, one owned by a white guy) neither have done anything for me or to me so I go to the store with the lowest prices. The funny thing is they get gasoline from the same supplier and their tanks and pumps are about the same age, some how the Indian's gas is always 5 cents cheaper....

 

[BruceH]

I just went through the "BMR or UPR" decision process on a k member. A Google search on each part brought up customer service experiences. My decision got real easy after reading them.

 

[stkjock]

Do you ever see a company lower a price because money was recouped from R&D or machine cost or material cost lowered?

yes

The funny thing is they get gasoline from the same supplier and their tanks and pumps are about the same age, some how the Indian's gas is always 5 cents cheaper...

too many factors to answer a question like that. However the most likely one is the Indian is willing to work for less

Capitalism = purpose of a corporation is to maximize profits

 

[Weou09]

too many factors to answer a question like that. However the most likely one is the Indian is willing to work for less

Capitalism = purpose of a corporation is to maximize profits

Your probably right there and that only reiterate why I buy gas from him.

 

[CPRsm]

Do you ever see a company lower a price because money was recouped from R&D or machine cost or material cost lowered? The only time I see prices go down and stay down is when demand goes down and stays down. I am sorry but I don't see things the way most of you guys do. No company as done me any favors and I do not do them any favors. I had a similar conversation with my uncle about two gas stations by my house(one owned by an Indian, one owned by a white guy) neither have done anything for me or to me so I go to the store with the lowest prices. The funny thing is they get gasoline from the same supplier and their tanks and pumps are about the same age, some how the Indian's gas is always 5 cents cheaper....

Point here is not the same part and who makes it cheaper. Not much you can do about a panhard bar. That's not high science lol. But we are talking about a stolen design.

Maybe the white guy pays his employees better and they can go out and have cars which they buy parts for.

 

[Powered by Ford]

Chrome moly is not lighter. That's a marketing misnomer. You bought a knock off and it sucks that most only look at price or buy into BS. If you guys produce your own turbo kit and see how expensive it is, maybe you'll understand the frustration when somebody copies your stuff and circumvents all the hard work and money up front. Not knocking you guys btw. I just hate how lackadaisical everyone is about knock offs.


I wouldn't mind either. But I don't see any of them claiming they are stronger.

No I do not see any of them claimer they are stronger, but they do claim it is "stiffer". My point is if you are building an aftermarket part it should meet or exceed the OEM application if you are going to market it as safe for the street, race track, etc. Just my 2 cents.