Wheel hop - uca + mount questions

[Riptide]

I've been led to believe that LCA alone typically solves almost all wheel hop in these cars. That isn't the case with mine. Even at less than 300whp I get wheel hop on the street. And at the track it's atrociously bad.

I have steeda fixed length lowers with poly/poly bushings. I am going to pull them, check the bushings, and regrease. Assuming they are OK then the LCA alone are not getting the job done.

I want to do the upper next and I've heard the stock mount is a flimsy piece of trash. However, I've also read it's a pain in the ass to replace mainly because the fuel tank has to come down some.

Are there any writeups or DIY guides on this w/photos? I can't seem to find any. I've found a few for the arm itself but not for the mount. I'm kinda new to working on cars so that's why I'm asking these questions.

 

[AJ]

I've been led to believe that LCA alone typically solves almost all wheel hop in these cars. That isn't the case with mine. Even at less than 300whp I get wheel hop on the street. And at the track it's atrociously bad.

I have steeda fixed length lowers with poly/poly bushings. I am going to pull them, check the bushings, and regrease. Assuming they are OK then the LCA alone are not getting the job done.

I want to do the upper next and I've heard the stock mount is a flimsy piece of trash. However, I've also read it's a pain in the ass to replace mainly because the fuel tank has to come down some.

Are there any writeups or DIY guides on this w/photos? I can't seem to find any. I've found a few for the arm itself but not for the mount. I'm kinda new to working on cars so that's why I'm asking these questions.

The factory UCA mount is a piece of junk. We will be doing a install write up shortly. Now a question, is your car lowered? Do you have LCA reloc brackets?

 

[Riptide]

The car is at stock ride height and I have no relocation brackets.

100% stock suspension, 17K miles on it, with just steeda fixed length lowers.

 

[AJ]

what tires are you running? what rpm do you leave at?

 

[Riptide]

goodyear summer tires (f1 supercars). 285/40/18.

I'm leaving at around 3000rpm, slipping the clutch. Even if I roll into first gear and stab it I sometimes get hop at the top of first gear.

I half expect to find a blown bushing on one of the lowers when I get them out. But even when they were freshly installed brand new I still sometimes had a bit of hop at the top of first. Hence why I want to just get this over and done with so I don't have to screw with it any more. Getting sick of this problem. Totally ruined my last track outing.

 

[Ken04]

the uca and the mount are a MF'er to change, the uca easier than the mount since you have to drop the tank a little to get room. But you have to drop the mount a little to get the uca bolt out, so,,,,,

The uca will help, but you're really looking for 2 things based on your post. You want to get rid of wheel hop, and increase traction. You can get rid of wheel hop with lowering springs, but that hurts traction. I would look into lca adjustable brackets and a uca. If you don't want to change the mount a uca will help, just not as much as firming up the mount by replacing it with a sturdier piece. The lcas do help, but not as much as you're looking for. Alot of people install lcas when they lower their cars, wheel hop goes away from the lowering, not the lcas in particular.

 

[Casey4s]

Are you drag racing this car when this happens?

I agree with the above poster, but would like to add that a good one piece drive shaft will help a lot also. There is a lot of "spnogieness" in the feel of the drive line with the stock two piece set up.

I had bad squat with lowering springs (1.5"), so I recently went to a UPR relocation brackets and I am waiting to see if it cures my squat.

Good luck to you...

 

[Riptide]

The car has a one piece driveshaft. The hop happens when I'm launching from a dig. It will even happen when I roll into first some of the time - usually at the top of the gear when the motor is making the most power.

At this point, with the car's power level where it's @ (ie. low), I just don't feel like I should have to do more than replace the upper arm and the mount along with the LCA that are already in there. Most people don't even have to do that much work on it.

If this car is SO finicky about this problem such that it keeps up with it after all that - then I'm done with it. Who the hell wants to replace practically all of their rear suspension to fix a problem like this when they aren't even supercharged? Asinine. If that happens then there must be something deeper wrong with the car.

 

[bigray327]

You'll probably see your wheel hop disappear with just the mount, but the rumors about the stock mount you heard were true... it's pretty flimsy. I have a double-adjustable UCA and I couldn't keep it locked tight no matter what. I replaced the mount and that took care of the problem.

 

[Ken04]

The car has a one piece driveshaft. The hop happens when I'm launching from a dig. It will even happen when I roll into first some of the time - usually at the top of the gear when the motor is making the most power.

At this point, with the car's power level where it's @ (ie. low), I just don't feel like I should have to do more than replace the upper arm and the mount along with the LCA that are already in there. Most people don't even have to do that much work on it.

If this car is SO finicky about this problem such that it keeps up with it after all that - then I'm done with it. Who the hell wants to replace practically all of their rear suspension to fix a problem like this when they aren't even supercharged? Asinine. If that happens then there must be something deeper wrong with the car.

99% of car buyers don't drag race their cars. So if you were Ford would you build a car specifically for the 1% ? I wouldn't either. But go and buy and brand/model of car and see what you'll have to go through to get it up to snuff for drag racing.

It's as finicky as anything else when pushed beyond it's intended usage. Sell it if you don't want to work on it, but be prepared to work on whatever else you buy if you want to race it.

 

[Riptide]

Seriously dude? It's not as finicky as "anything else". This car doesn't even have 300whp. Most people don't even have to do the upper until they get a power adder. Sometimes not even then.

I am looking at the UMI mount to replace the factory one. Looks like a nice piece. The question then becomes which lower arm to get. Adjustability is a low priority since I don't intend to lower - pretty much ever. Strano has these two but I don't know much about the "roto delrin" joint. I'm guessing of the two the rod end would be the stiffest?

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=739&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=250&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5

 

[Casey4s]

Seriously dude? It's not as finicky as "anything else". This car doesn't even have 300whp. Most people don't even have to do the upper until they get a power adder. Sometimes not even then.

I am looking at the UMI mount to replace the factory one. Looks like a nice piece. The question then becomes which lower arm to get. Adjustability is a low priority since I don't intend to lower - pretty much ever. Strano has these two but I don't know much about the "roto delrin" joint. I'm guessing of the two the rod end would be the stiffest?

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=739&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=250&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5

I have a BMR upper with the sphirical joint and am satisfied with it. So I like the second one better. Personally I think the BMR look sturdier.

If you get an adjustable upper you don't really need to change the lowers you have now.

Good luck with the upgrade.

 

[Riptide]

I don't know much about spherical joints. How do you go about greasing those things? It would be great if I don't have to remove the arm to do this - or better yet, not have to grease them at all. Not sure if that's possible though.

Thanks for the suggestion - the BMR looks good but sure seems pricey. $209 on their website.

 

[dysan]

I had just the J&M lower control arms and would still get wheel hop, but as soon as I installed the J&M upper control arm, my wheel hop is gone. I did not replace the stock upper mount, but I will eventually once my car starts making more power.

 

[Ken04]

Seriously dude? It's not as finicky as "anything else". This car doesn't even have 300whp. Most people don't even have to do the upper until they get a power adder. Sometimes not even then.

I am looking at the UMI mount to replace the factory one. Looks like a nice piece. The question then becomes which lower arm to get. Adjustability is a low priority since I don't intend to lower - pretty much ever. Strano has these two but I don't know much about the "roto delrin" joint. I'm guessing of the two the rod end would be the stiffest?

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=739&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php?PartID=250&CategoryID=99&ModelID=5

I went with an adj uca, and solid lca's. I won't need to adjust both. I had wheel hop, stock car, just a tune. Mine is lowered which changed the angle of the lcas and pretty much got rid of wheel hop at the expense of traction.

My best friend's CTS-V at over $50,000 has wheel hop so bad I kick his ass out of the hole 99 times out of 100. Doubtful drag racing was the intended use for his car, nor the Mustang. He has independent rear suspension, probably quite a bit more expensive to fix that wheel hop than it is to correct ours.

The roto-delrin is a semi rod end looking piece, supposedly it's the benefits of a rod end with the quietness of polyurethane but it won't be nearly as solid as a rod end although it will be quite a bit noisier. Marketing term I'd say.

But Strano knows alot about setting up the S197, best bet is to call him, talk to him about what you're looking for rather than just throwing parts at your car. He's an auto-x'er, a sport surely not intended by the designers of the Mustang. But they need to get out of the hole just as you do.

 

[Redwolf]

I just installed an aluminum D/S and had to readjust the pinion angle. It wasn't too bad since I have been under there several times. Putting the UCA on isn't too bad. No need to drop the gas tank. Remove the rear seat (easy) then loosen the UCA mount bolt under the seat (on the driveshaft hump). You don't need to completely remove the bolt unless you plan on replacing the mount. The bolt only needs to be loosened enough to allow clearance for the UCA bolt to clear hitting the gas tank.

I had really bad wheel hop in completely stock form. When I installed the adjustable UCA, LCA's, panhard bar, and springs I couldn't tell the rear tires were spinning until the car started going sideways......it's butter smooth now.

 

[Riptide]

Been conversing with Sam a bit via e-mail and he recommended the UMI adjustable with the rod ends for the ultimate in hop reduction.

I do agree with the earlier poster that the BMR appears to be stronger based simply on appearance. Here are a couple comparison pics. The BMR in the pic has the poly bushings but otherwise would be the same as the rod ended item.
http://www.stranoparts.com/data/images/p25025114423.jpg
http://www.bmrfabrication.com/05Mustang/UTCA019.jpg

I mentioned to Sam that the BMR looks stiffer. I don't think he sells it though.

I appreciate the responses/suggestions and Redwolf replacing the mount is gonna happen as well. I want a one shot deal here to fix this problem - so the tank will have to be lowered.

 

[Redwolf]

Been conversing with Sam a bit via e-mail and he recommended the UMI adjustable with the rod ends for the ultimate in hop reduction.

I do agree with the earlier poster that the BMR appears to be stronger based simply on appearance. Here are a couple comparison pics. The BMR in the pic has the poly bushings but otherwise would be the same as the rod ended item.
http://www.stranoparts.com/data/images/p25025114423.jpg
http://www.bmrfabrication.com/05Mustang/UTCA019.jpg

I mentioned to Sam that the BMR looks stiffer. I don't think he sells it though.

I appreciate the responses/suggestions and Redwolf replacing the mount is gonna happen as well. I want a one shot deal here to fix this problem - so the tank will have to be lowered.

Like I stated, you don't have to lower the tank. You have to remove the rear seat anyways to unbolt the UCA mount bracket from the body of the car. Removing the tank was for those that only replaced the UCA and not the mounting bracket. Besides, that's the hard way to do it, removing the rear seat is the easiest ether way.

 

[UMI Sales]

Hello
Thanks for considering UMI Performance of your suspension needs. I can assure you that our products have been tested and proven. Even thought the designs are different. You will not be disappointed in the replacement top mount allow you to adjust the instant center change therefore making the tires hit harder. Below is a link to show you what all UMI Performance has to offer!

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=12

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will be more than glad to help.
Thanks
Brad

 

[Riptide]

Redwolf that is exactly the opposite of what I've read so far. If you're doing just the arm then the tank doesn't need to come down. If you're doing the mount then it needs to be lowered in order to access one or more bolt(s) in order to completely get them out of there. I'm not trying to start a disagreement here so to speak - only quoting what I've read and relating my (now) confusion on the issue.

Regarding the UMI part I'm still considering all the options and don't plan to put an order in for a week or two. I want this to be a one shot deal and so I'm being careful about the parts I get. I've heard the BMR isn't worth the extra money from a source I have some trust in - but that person also does not sell the BMR part either. Makes it a little difficult to make the decision. It may be that either one is just fine.