Your cooling mods and results?

[2013kAB]

Yeah. I read last night that apparently coyote cars have oil temp on the ecu but noone seems to have been able to read it. Thanks for info on the torque pro. I thought that one looked promising.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ddd4114]

I have a DashDAQ, and I've never been able to find oil temperature on that either. However, even if I could read it, I would take it with a grain of salt since it's just a predicted temperature. I put a thermistor in the drain plug to measure and log it.

 

[AJ14]

so oil temp and water temp our both predicted?? I have a '14 track pack with boss oil/coolant cooler. car oil temp goes into red within 5 laps on a 68 deg day. water temps slightly past halfway. since that track day I installed Kendall's super mega oil cooler with t-stat. took car took track this past friday and got about 8 laps before pegging the gauge. water temp still fine. ww/coolant/water 1 bottle/30%/70%. I am seriously ready to sell this car. please any help would be great. I read through most of this thread but in kinda went off topic. p.s. first overheating oil issues car kinda went into a limp/power take away mode. I am guessing to protect itself. This past Friday I purposely drove two extra laps in the red to see if it would take away power and it did not. I love everything about this car but it is useless if I can't track it........possible well set up gt for sale lol.....thanks AJ

 

[ddd4114]

Coolant temperature is measured.

 

[sheizasosay]

I have always had my OEM temp gauge read a tad to the left of the middle of the gauge. I have no idea what temp that is. I know I need to get a gauge. So I start searching and it turns out that at least the 3v engines do not have a coolant sensor. They use a cylinder head temp. I feel I'm REAL late to this info. All this time I thought I had a rock steady gauge reading to find out it's not even the coolant that is measured. It is always a smidge to the left of center even during a 25 minutes track session too. That is with a blower and the only cooling other than an upgraded intercooler is the functional cowl hood.

 

[frank s]

I'd be tempted to disbelieve an oil temp gauge that ignored the installation of a Kendall's super mega oil cooler with t-stat. I got a lesson in what-to-check first from Bobby and Al Unser when I stopped at their shop in Albuquerque, September, 1957. My MGTD had some work done in Los Angeles, and I was advised to change the oil after about 500 miles. On my way to Little Rock, AR, I stopped in Kingman, AZ, and changed the oil to the recommended 30-weight Castrol. The oil pressure practically doubled, so it seemed natural to stop at the Unsers'. They were just rolling the doors closed at noon on a Saturday, but didn't refuse me. First thing they did was disconnect the standard (mechanical) gauge and substitute a new Jaguar instrument. It registered the same, and they declared "No problemo", which it turned out was true. We decided since the L.A. work involved pistons and rings, the oil removed in Kingman was "break-in" viscosity, which explained the new readings.

Couple of years ago I asked Bobby if he remembered the incident. He said they had so many of those furrin cars needing repair on their way from L.A. to anywhere east, that my little chapter must not have registered.

 

[sheizasosay]

I'd be tempted to disbelieve an oil temp gauge that ignored the installation of a Kendall's super mega oil cooler with t-stat. I got a lesson in what-to-check first from Bobby and Al Unser when I stopped at their shop in Albuquerque, September, 1957. My MGTD had some work done in Los Angeles, and I was advised to change the oil after about 500 miles. On my way to Little Rock, AR, I stopped in Kingman, AZ, and changed the oil to the recommended 30-weight Castrol. The oil pressure practically doubled, so it seemed natural to stop at the Unsers'. They were just rolling the doors closed at noon on a Saturday, but didn't refuse me. First thing they did was disconnect the standard (mechanical) gauge and substitute a new Jaguar instrument. It registered the same, and they declared "No problemo", which it turned out was true. We decided since the L.A. work involved pistons and rings, the oil removed in Kingman was "break-in" viscosity, which explained the new readings.

Couple of years ago I asked Bobby if he remembered the incident. He said they had so many of those furrin cars needing repair on their way from L.A. to anywhere east, that my little chapter must not have registered.

Are you trying to one-up me at story-time Frank?

 

[kcbrown]

so oil temp and water temp our both predicted?? I have a '14 track pack with boss oil/coolant cooler. car oil temp goes into red within 5 laps on a 68 deg day. water temps slightly past halfway. since that track day I installed Kendall's super mega oil cooler with t-stat. took car took track this past friday and got about 8 laps before pegging the gauge. water temp still fine. ww/coolant/water 1 bottle/30%/70%. I am seriously ready to sell this car. please any help would be great. I read through most of this thread but in kinda went off topic. p.s. first overheating oil issues car kinda went into a limp/power take away mode. I am guessing to protect itself. This past Friday I purposely drove two extra laps in the red to see if it would take away power and it did not. I love everything about this car but it is useless if I can't track it........possible well set up gt for sale lol.....thanks AJ

What oil? What tune?

 

[Pentalab]

I have always had my OEM temp gauge read a tad to the left of the middle of the gauge. I have no idea what temp that is. I know I need to get a gauge. So I start searching and it turns out that at least the 3v engines do not have a coolant sensor. They use a cylinder head temp. I feel I'm REAL late to this info. All this time I thought I had a rock steady gauge reading to find out it's not even the coolant that is measured. It is always a smidge to the left of center even during a 25 minutes track session too. That is with a blower and the only cooling other than an upgraded intercooler is the functional cowl hood.

The 05-10 3v engs read cyl head temp (cht) via 1 sensor..(I think located at either cyl #4 or #8). The "coolant temp" is derived via an algorithm, so is not a real reading. The high /low fan thresholds however, trip off the "coolant temp". If you plug an aeroforce gauge into the obd port, you will find there is a lot of bogus parameters that show up, but are erroneous readings, like 'iat', 'boost', 'oil temp', 'oil pressure', etc. Fuel pump pressure is legit, as is fuel rail pressure. 'Rail pressure' is bogus. The real iat is actually 'intake air'. The mech oil pressure gauge on the dash of the 05-10 cars is bogus, it stays fixed at all times. They have just looped regulated 12-14 vdc through a resistor to derive a midscale reading on an analog gauge. The boost gauge on the 07+ GT-500 cars apparently is not real, but derived.

The good news is... if you have an aeroforce gauge, they come with a pair of aux inputs..for any sensors you add yourself, like a real coolant temp, oil temp, oil pressure, he-ic loop coolant temps etc. With 3 x aeroforce gauges, I can add up to 6 x external sensors. With blower cars ( 05-10) the all important AF gauge is a good one to have. The 11-14 cars already read AF on both banks. You can also add external alarms to the aeroforce gauges, and set your own thresholds, or add relay driver's to do stuff like turn on the HE fans when IAT exceeds XXX degs F, etc.

They will also handle and /or combo's... like IAT's exceeding XXX deg f AND rpm> 5 k etc.

At least with some real eng coolant sensor's in there, plus oil temp + oil pressure sensor's etc, one could get a real picture of what is really going on. Then if any cooling mods done, you could see their effects, and proceed from there.

 

[AJ14]

motorcraft 5-50 syn (factory recommended) changed at 1400 miles when cooler was installed. I have about 2000 miles on it now. engine all stock no tune.....just mbrp x-pipe back exhaust.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

The 05-10 3v engs read cyl head temp (cht) via 1 sensor..(I think located at either cyl #4 or #8). The "coolant temp" is derived via an algorithm, so is not a real reading. The high /low fan thresholds however, trip off the "coolant temp".

So far so good. Then it starts to go to shit...

[If you plug an aeroforce gauge into the obd port, you will find there is a lot of bogus parameters that show up, but are erroneous readings, like 'iat', 'boost', 'oil temp', 'oil pressure', etc. Fuel pump pressure is legit, as is fuel rail pressure. 'Rail pressure' is bogus. The real iat is actually 'intake air'.[/quote]

They're called "PIDs" and are global in usage, so it's no surprise that data that would only apply to a diesel is still present in the system. Ford (or anybody else for that matter) isn't going to re-write the "operating system" for each car, they'll just change the program file that actually makes the thing run.

The mech oil pressure gauge on the dash of the 05-10 cars is bogus, it stays fixed at all times. They have just looped regulated 12-14 vdc through a resistor to derive a midscale reading on an analog gauge. The boost gauge on the 07+ GT-500 cars apparently is not real, but derived.

Um, no, wrong.... Again. You REALLY need to research your shit before posting it as gospel, guy. The ENTIRE dash, excepting the fuel level readings, are PCM driven to stepper motors. There are no regulated feeds running through resistors, the info is shot to the dash through both high-speed and medium-speed CAN BUS data links. And yes, there IS an oil pressure transducer that feeds analog data to the PCM. How do I know this? My car is a hybrid of 2006 and 2008 parts and systems, and to complete my build, I needed wiring manuals from both years... That also fairly neatly covers both the "early" and "late" 4.6L S197 designs... So, it was simple to look up the schematics for the systems you mentioned and verify, that yes, once again, you have your head up your ass. It would be amusing, except that far too many people take what they read here as gospel truth, but you're preaching out of the wrong book.

Before anybody says anything, yes, your conclusion (distilled down to "run some real direct-reading gauges") is correct. The "evidence" you use to support your conclusion, however, is as usual highly suspect or completely erroneous. FWIW, I run analog direct-reading Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Coolant temp gauges in my car, and strongly recommend the same to anybody doing serious tracking.

 

[ArizonaGT]

so oil temp and water temp our both predicted?? I have a '14 track pack with boss oil/coolant cooler. car oil temp goes into red within 5 laps on a 68 deg day. water temps slightly past halfway. since that track day I installed Kendall's super mega oil cooler with t-stat. took car took track this past friday and got about 8 laps before pegging the gauge. water temp still fine. ww/coolant/water 1 bottle/30%/70%. I am seriously ready to sell this car. please any help would be great. I read through most of this thread but in kinda went off topic. p.s. first overheating oil issues car kinda went into a limp/power take away mode. I am guessing to protect itself. This past Friday I purposely drove two extra laps in the red to see if it would take away power and it did not. I love everything about this car but it is useless if I can't track it........possible well set up gt for sale lol.....thanks AJ

Get a high-flow grille like the 302S, Roush, or Saleen for tracking. Or, pull your grille altogether.

I don't have cooling issues out here in Arizona at the track, setup is a B302 with Setrab 925 oil cooler in-line with factory oil cooler setup and stock radiator. 302S grille most of the time but Roush style grille for the hottest parts of the year. Straight water plus two bottles of water wetter in the coolant system.

 

[frank s]

Are you trying to one-up me at story-time Frank?

I hope you don't mind. Every so often some debris from the past shows up unexpectedly, like a frog in my throat, and I have to clear it out.

 

[kcbrown]

motorcraft 5-50 syn (factory recommended) changed at 1400 miles when cooler was installed. I have about 2000 miles on it now. engine all stock no tune.....just mbrp x-pipe back exhaust.

That's essentially the same as mine (except I have the stock exhaust). I don't have the external oil cooler, just the water-based one that came with it. I've seen the oil temps climb into the yellow zone, but not the red zone quite yet. But this is at Sonoma Raceway, which doesn't have a lot of long straights or anything like that.

What track are you running at when you're seeing these temperature problems?


Note that I have an event at Thunderhill coming up in August. It's likely to be hot. This is going to be an interesting workout for the car.

 

[steveespo]

Um, no, wrong.... Again. You REALLY need to research your shit before posting it as gospel, guy. The ENTIRE dash, excepting the fuel level readings, are PCM driven to stepper motors. There are no regulated feeds running through resistors, the info is shot to the dash through both high-speed and medium-speed CAN BUS data links. And yes, there IS an oil pressure transducer that feeds analog data to the PCM. How do I know this? My car is a hybrid of 2006 and 2008 parts and systems, and to complete my build, I needed wiring manuals from both years... That also fairly neatly covers both the "early" and "late" 4.6L S197 designs... So, it was simple to look up the schematics for the systems you mentioned and verify, that yes, once again, you have your head up your ass. It would be amusing, except that far too many people take what they read here as gospel truth, but you're preaching out of the wrong book.

Before anybody says anything, yes, your conclusion (distilled down to "run some real direct-reading gauges") is correct. The "evidence" you use to support your conclusion, however, is as usual highly suspect or completely erroneous. FWIW, I run analog direct-reading Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Coolant temp gauges in my car, and strongly recommend the same to anybody doing serious tracking.

Dave
I have a 2011 GT that I would like to connect an Auto Meter Elite fuel level gauge to. Do you know what wire to tap onto that would give the variable resistance reading from the fuel level sender? I know there are 2 floats and that the values are averaged between both readings but I ws hoping there is a way to do it.
I agree with you, I have auto meter elite gauges for water temp, oil pressure, oil temp, differential lube temp and trans lube temp on the car. Reason I want the fuel level is the Traqmate screen is mounted on the column and blocks the center of the cluster.
Steve

 

[Pentalab]

. And yes, there IS an oil pressure transducer that feeds analog data to the PCM. How do I know this? My car is a hybrid of 2006 and 2008 parts and systems, and to complete my build, I needed wiring manuals from both years... That also fairly neatly covers both the "early" and "late" 4.6L S197 designs... So, it was simple to look up the schematics for the systems you mentioned and verify, that yes, once again, you have your head up your ass.

It's actually an oil pressure switch..... which closes when oil pressure is 8 psi or higher. Oem gauge will always read just over half scale. Funny thing is.....with key in the "on" position (eng off), it will still read just over half scale, in exactly the same position. Why do you think that is? Presumably the oil pressure is zero with eng off. I can't read oil pressure off the OBD port. I can see why, it's supposed to be a pressure activated switch, not an actual (real) oil pressure sensor /sender. There is no varying data vs oil pressure info being sent. The dash gauge stays stuck..just above midscale, with eng on...or off. Ford has been doing this for years on various vehicles. Typ it's a 7-8 psi pressure activated switch + an aprx 20 ohm resistor. The schematic may or may not show it. Ford vehicles that do have a proper sender, don't have the resistor...... and oil pressure gauge will vary with rpm.

 

[Pentalab]

Get a high-flow grille like the 302S, Roush, or Saleen for tracking. Or, pull your grille altogether.

I don't have cooling issues out here in Arizona at the track, setup is a B302 with Setrab 925 oil cooler in-line with factory oil cooler setup and stock radiator. 302S grille most of the time but Roush style grille for the hottest parts of the year. Straight water plus two bottles of water wetter in the coolant system.

7 bar Roush grille /no grille + 100% distilled water + 2 jugs of water wetter....plus a real oil cooler...and stock eng rad. Yikes, don't let sky render et all see this.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Last year I was running my 700HP setup and during 20 mins track sessions, my coolant temp never exceeded 207. My supercharger coolant peaked at high teens at WOT. My supercharger coolant reservoir was warm to the touch.

I ran Preston 50/50 premix and one bottle of Water Wetter in both systems.

I run a AFCO racing radiator, stock thermostat, and an Edelbrock water pump on the motor. Supercharger cooling system is an AFCO dual fan heat exchanger with a Meziere 20 GPM pump, and Canton reservoirs.

 

[AJ14]

something has to be wrong with my car.....I run watkins glen pitt race and nelsons ledges. my temp goes red in five laps. The temp is only 70 deg,, help me fix this I will pay you....

 

[ArizonaGT]

something has to be wrong with my car.....I run watkins glen pitt race and nelsons ledges. my temp goes red in five laps. The temp is only 70 deg,, help me fix this I will pay you....

You sure you've got the coolant system purged fully? Maybe giant air bubble in there somewhere?