Need just a LITTLE bit more power

[SoundGuyDave]

Changing classes, and now have a horsepower bogey to hit!

Have 313RWHP, need to get between 347 and 357.
Have 347RWTQ, need to get between 366 and 377.

In short, I need 35-45HP and 20-30TQ. Those numbers will put my base weight between 3300 and 3400lbs.

Current driveline mods:
C&L Racer CAI
Steeda billet CMCV deletes
Mezeire water pump
Roush underdrive pulleys
American Racing 1.75" longtubes, catless H-pipe, resonators, FR500S mufflers
Custom dyno tune (safe, but on the numbers)
fizanza aluminum flywheel
Spec 2+ clutch
Spydershaft aluminum driveshaft
3.73 rear cog

So.... what do you folks thing would be the solution? Do you think cams alone would do it? Which one? I need to be as close to a 9.5:1 power ratio AND a 9.0:1 torque ratio as possible, and I would prefer not to start building the engine internally. At that point, I might as well do a Coyote swap and toss in a restrictor.

Obviously, I'm looking for as broad a powerband as possible (not overly peaky), and would prefer not to spin the engine past 7K, but I am open to thoughts and suggestions.

Posted here, as you folks understand the need for a wide powerband, as opposed to the drag guys that are all about the peak numbers.

 

[2013MustangGT]

Dave

Terry Fair, I know 5.0, has CAI and LT headers and a mild tune and his makes 434 rwhp. That's about 54 hp more than stock. So you can start there. As far as the 3.73 gears go I would skip that. I had them on my car and removed them because of having smaller wheels and tires. I don't notice any loss of power after switching them to 3.31 gears. I don't remember how much your car weighs. Do you have to add or remove weight? If you have to remove it change out the fly wheel for sure. Also, the headers should remove some weight. The one piece drive shaft should save some weight too.

 

[Mr. Q]

^
I don't think this guy is paying attention here. Dave has a 3v.

Dave, you gotta look at the draggers to see what they've done for power. I'm thinking intake manifold and some aggressive cams will do.
but you WILL lose some low end and mid range power, which I know you don't want to do.
Not sure what would bump up power for you n/a.

 

[Sky Render]

I'm not sure what you could do to increase peak HP/TQ without making it "peaky," short of a blower, and that would add too much power.

Maybe slightly higher-profile cams and an intake manifold?

 

[Mr. Q]

the thing is, if you upgrade your springs while you're in there, you can tweak the tune a bit to be able to rev to 7k. in essence, you'd keep your usable powerband from 4.5k-7k. im pretty sure that'll tax your motor more than you want...

maybe do some jenny craig while you're at it? have you trashed the evap system yet?

 

[AlbertD]

On my 06 I had similar mods you have now plus the addition of ported heads/FRPP mani/127500 cams I made 377rwhp/331tq. I don't think hitting the HP number you want will be a problem. You could probably hit that with an aggressive cam alone, but the TQ on the other hand... Not sure how you would accomplish that with the 3V NA.

I don't recall ever seeing a 3V make that high of TQ AND HP that didn't end up modifying the short block. I may be wrong though, hopefully someone will chime in! I'm curious.

 

[ArizonaGT]

I think cams are going to be your best shot from what I remember from my 3V days, but I'd probably take a harder look at lightening the car to hit the P:W targets with your existing setup, and compare costs for either method of attack before proceeding.

Any constraints as far as "keeping the car streetable" or anything like that?

A few of my friends out here run road course cars with the Roush M90 blowers; they take the heat just fine (although you're probably adding 100lbs of weight to the front of the car with the blower, manifold, intercooler, and fluids). These cars make 380-400whp. I think the blower kits are around $4.5-5K, so again, you're getting close to Coyote crate territory.

 

[cbass]

sell all your parts, buy a supercharger, get an electronic boost controller, program it hold the goal power level. And if you're really sneaky, toss a 2 stage boost controller in and make more power when racing than when testing.

 

[Sky Render]

sell all your parts, buy a supercharger, get an electronic boost controller, program it hold the goal power level. And if you're really sneaky, toss a 2 stage boost controller in and make more power when racing than when testing.

Boost controllers with a supercharger? What?

Sent from my toilet using Tapatalk

 

[cbass]

Boost controllers with a supercharger? What?

Sent from my toilet using Tapatalk

Bleed boost, make target power level for a wider band with a smaller pulley.

 

[fdjizm]

Road coursing with a supercharger no bueno, dat heat soak.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Okay, I obviously didn't put all the required info out there... Guess I should update my sig!

Car is a fully gutted, caged and logbooked NASA racer, last time scaled it was 3250lbs, including me with all my gear on and 1/8 tank of fuel. I'm moving out of my current class into American Iron, and want to keep the existing ABS setup, thus the 9.5:1 power and 9.0:1 torque caps. I also do NOT want to pile on a bunch of weight, a la Vorshlag, for a very long list of reasons. Essentially, we're approaching the same basic power/weight ratio, but from the opposite ends of the spectrum, and with vastly different rule sets. Why? There's only ONE track that I run where I'm forced into 5th gear; all the rest are more typical 1.7-2.5 mile club tracks with shorter straights. I'll take the max speed penalty in a heartbeat to gain under braking and at turn-in. I'm light on power, and am willing to take a SMALL weight increase IF NECESSARY to get close to "the number." For example, I would rather stay in the 3300-3350 range, but I'll go as high as 3400 if that's what the dyno comes up with after tuning, rather than deal with restrictor plates, pulled timing or fat A/F ratio to cut the power.

For all of you that are recommending forced induction, while I appreciate it, it's absolutely not going to happen. Besides 40 minute sprint races, I also run 3-hour or longer endurance races, and there's no way to avoid heat soak (and power loss) over that long a period of time. Additionally, forced-induction is illegal in my series.

Mr. Q: I appreciate the suggestions! I somehow don't think Jenny Craig would help, though... I'm 5'11" and 155lbs including all the driver gear! And yes, the evap system is completely gone.

Bad281: Interesting numbers, if a bit high/skewed for me. I'm thinking the 127500 cam is going to be a bit much for my application, and will be the primary cause of lost torque. The heads should just increase VE and give you gains across the board, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the intake manifold, and how it affected broadband power and torque. Any thoughts?

Arizona: I hear exactly what you're saying about going even lighter, and that has been tried in my region before, with "not great" results. The lighter and less horsepower build unfortunately still has the same aero CD as a heavyweight, and even at 3250 and 313HP, I can start to feel the aero drag on the club tracks. It seems like 3300-3400 is the sweet spot. Enough power to punch a hole in the air rather than bounce off, but light enough to have an edge under braking.

 

[Mr. Q]

wow, you are tiny lol. i mean that in a good way.
maybe you should just swap a coyote, it definitely seems like the easier thing to do haha

 

[Sky Render]

A Coyote swap is a lot of work and money.

Dave, are your heads stock? Would a port & polish and some valve work free up some more power?

 

[Mr. Q]

i wasn't being serious, haha.

i'm thinking in order to reach your torque goals, you'd have to do some internal work. bore/stroke and raise compression a bit. head porting with matching cams would be ideal for hp gains, custom grind to minimalize torque loss.

 

[AlbertD]

With all the mods I mentioned...

Before the manifold, HP was peaking at 6.2k and started falling off quite rapidly.
After the manifold, HP was peaking at 6.6k and held all the way up to 7k.

This is with the VCT system locked out. AFAIK with VCT timing adjustments, the power band could probably be shifted one way or the other. I wish I had my old dyno sheets so I could post them up for you.

TQ numbers didn't seem to be affect much after the manifold and I don't really remember what the TQ curve looked like before and after.

With this setup though, the car was a dog down below 4k.

 

[2008 V6]

Okay, I obviously didn't put all the required info out there... Guess I should update my sig!

Car is a fully gutted, caged and logbooked NASA racer, last time scaled it was 3250lbs, including me with all my gear on and 1/8 tank of fuel. I'm moving out of my current class into American Iron, and want to keep the existing ABS setup, thus the 9.5:1 power and 9.0:1 torque caps. I also do NOT want to pile on a bunch of weight, a la Vorshlag, for a very long list of reasons. Essentially, we're approaching the same basic power/weight ratio, but from the opposite ends of the spectrum, and with vastly different rule sets. Why? There's only ONE track that I run where I'm forced into 5th gear; all the rest are more typical 1.7-2.5 mile club tracks with shorter straights. I'll take the max speed penalty in a heartbeat to gain under braking and at turn-in. I'm light on power, and am willing to take a SMALL weight increase IF NECESSARY to get close to "the number." For example, I would rather stay in the 3300-3350 range, but I'll go as high as 3400 if that's what the dyno comes up with after tuning, rather than deal with restrictor plates, pulled timing or fat A/F ratio to cut the power.

For all of you that are recommending forced induction, while I appreciate it, it's absolutely not going to happen. Besides 40 minute sprint races, I also run 3-hour or longer endurance races, and there's no way to avoid heat soak (and power loss) over that long a period of time. Additionally, forced-induction is illegal in my series.

.

I skimmed the American Iron Rules and torque limits are a problem. Most series are HP Limited. This has been changing rapidly the last 10 years or so. I was gong to suggest a Windsor platform set lower & farther back in the chassis but -$$$ & time.
You are right about aero drag, rolling resistance – Needs X amount of Torque / HP to push it. Most people don’t understand this.
Modding your 3 valve is the cheapest but all the research I have done shows that increasing the HP - To what you need – Changes the power curve and you narrow the usable RPM band (Max torque is though a narrower band)
Free advise is usually worth what you paid for it. Hopefully, you find a cheap solution to your dilemma. If there was one, everyone would be doing it.

 

[sheizasosay]

If you had forged rods and pistons you could consider a cam and spin the shit out of the motor. I've heard of a Hotrod cammed motor with Stage 2 heads, FRPP throttle body, FRPP manifold and longtubes push 400rwhp. They had to forge the motor and spin it to 8000rpms though. This was someone Gmitch knew.

You need to be talking to a no-bullshit engine builder.

 

[fdjizm]

Title says "Need just a LITTLE bit more power" 7k supercharger and 9k coyote swap recommended first

 

[2013DIBGT]

The M-6550-3V High Lift Hot Rod Cams may get you close:

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/parts-accessories/2005-2010-mustang/cylinder-heads-cams-2/