Tsb 11-07-07

[JerryC]

I have not built an engine in a couple of decades, so things have changed for sure in that time.

Here's a question that I have been wondering about.

How is it the people that blew #8 didnt hear it? Is it that everyone of them had really loud exhaust that covered the sound of detonation? The factory exhaust is so quiet that Ford installed a sound tube from the intake to the cabin, and wouldnt that bring the sound of detonation into the cabin as well?

 

[tbi0904]

How the F can the 4.6 max out around 500hp but the 5.0 can only stay at ~412 crank?

Considering the members on here that have fi and haven't blown up yet I would say that statement is a little misguided.

 

[uncle phil]

17 pages on this and do we know how manyn cars had #8 problem. No one names whos tune they were running,how long they had the tune and if it occurred during normal driving or at the track. Did they also have a cold air intake? What were build dates of cars involved? Before I got my 5.0 I had a 2009 wrx . Subaru had problems with spun rod bearings build dates jul,aug,sep, and replaced those engines no questions asked because they new there was a problem. Just saying more info would be nice.

 

[KJGT]

17 pages on this and do we know how manyn cars had #8 problem. No one names whos tune they were running,how long they had the tune and if it occurred during normal driving or at the track. Did they also have a cold air intake? What were build dates of cars involved? Before I got my 5.0 I had a 2009 wrx . Subaru had problems with spun rod bearings build dates jul,aug,sep, and replaced those engines no questions asked because they new there was a problem. Just saying more info would be nice.

Hard to get any good info because tuners involved wont say anything, owners who put their cars back stock and got it fixed for free wont say anything and people who did hurt one with a tune that returned to stock who are pending repairs wont say anything.

 

[SMOKE]

17 pages on this and do we know how manyn cars had #8 problem. No one names whos tune they were running,how long they had the tune and if it occurred during normal driving or at the track. Did they also have a cold air intake? What were build dates of cars involved? Before I got my 5.0 I had a 2009 wrx . Subaru had problems with spun rod bearings build dates jul,aug,sep, and replaced those engines no questions asked because they new there was a problem. Just saying more info would be nice.

Agreed ... you would think among owners full disclosure would be paramount.
A list of vehicles and the damage would help but this in perspective. We'll put together a list of mods that produce horsepower and show the results with time slips, can't we get a list of the carnage?
Could go a long way to show which shops are past this issue.

 

[19COBRA93]

How is it the people that blew #8 didnt hear it? Is it that everyone of them had really loud exhaust that covered the sound of detonation? The factory exhaust is so quiet that Ford installed a sound tube from the intake to the cabin, and wouldnt that bring the sound of detonation into the cabin as well?

The fact is, detonation is really hard to hear in the new cars. They're so sound insulated that you just can't hear it as well. Aftermarket exhaust certainly doesn't help.

I can hear strong detonation in my car, but the last time I melted a piston I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary. It just suddenly had a bad miss, and was blowing blue smoke.

 

[JerryC]

The fact is, detonation is really hard to hear in the new cars. They're so sound insulated that you just can't hear it as well. Aftermarket exhaust certainly doesn't help.

I can hear strong detonation in my car, but the last time I melted a piston I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary. It just suddenly had a bad miss, and was blowing blue smoke.

You didnt have the sound tube on, right?

 

[19COBRA93]

You didnt have the sound tube on, right?

Mine is an '05. The '11's are even quieter. My buddys supercharged '11 melted down a couple pistons (and bent several rods) too and he didn't hear anything.

For those wondering, the blower impeller seal failed which dumped oil through the IC system and contaminated the MAF, which then failed, and the car completely leaned out on the dyno during a run). Once we installed the new motor (out of pocket) we found the bad MAF which had to be replaced as well.

 

[JerryC]

Mine is an '05. The '11's are even quieter.

Oops, it's hard to tell you xxCOBRAxx guys apart...

 

[19COBRA93]

Oops, it's hard to tell you xxCOBRAxx guys apart...

Ouch!

 

[201250]

So basicly Ford designed this new motor which IMO is an engineering marvel in itself. When the engineerers got done and it came time to mass produce the bean counters got involved.

Engineers say it makes 412HP @ 7000rpm. They also know once this is released people will be modifying to put out more HP as with every other performance car produced. So the engineers say we need to put a good forged crank,Good forged rods and GOOD forged pistons. Bean counter says how much more per unit will that cost. Engineer says $500 more.Bean counter says "NO" we are over budget because we added vanity lights and universal garage door opener. You have to stay within OUR budget. Anyway you get what I mean.

On the other side of the coin is the tuning issue. It amazes me that there are so many different tuners able to write tunes for the 5.0. As new as it is. Think about it. As with anything new there are going to be mistakes made and the end user is the one that is going to suffer. IE #8 piston problems. I'm not saying the tune is bad, but maybe the tuner is doing things they don't understand which leads to some type of failure.

I guess in the end you are left with the choices of putting your faith in a tuner you trust, mod the car and don't look back. If it blows replace with better parts and maybe a different tuner.

Not mod the car and enjoy it the way Ford gave it to you.

In the end it's all about choices and making the right one for you.

 

[JerryC]

Ouch!

Oh, sorry about that

 

[Mishri]

201250, well said, I agree completely. would have been nice to be able to pay an extra $1000 for a forged engine instead though.. maybe someday we'll be given that option

 

[five0three]

isnt the gt500 forged?

 

[KungFuHamster]

isnt the gt500 forged?

yes.

im telling you guys, i think the #7&8 cylinders just run hotter due to the flow of the coolant (think original 03/04 cobras) and tuners will have to adjust their tunes accordingly.

 

[five0three]

maybe someday we'll be given that option

isnt the gt500 forged?

yes.

ultimate lesson. pay TO play, not pay THEN play

 

[19COBRA93]

isnt the gt500 forged?

Yes, but you have to pay $20,000 more for that option as opposed to what it would cost to hopefully have it as an option on the GT. $1000-$1500 sounds pretty reasonable IMO. I too would like to see Ford offer that as an option. The Boss is close, but still not quite there with full forged internals. I'd like to see some nice H-beams in the Boss, and as an option in the regular GT as well. Or at least, make the current Boss rods standard in the GT, and run h-beams in the Boss, and run the same forged Mahle pistons in both (which are what the Boss has currently). That's what I'd like to see.

 

[five0three]

i would love to see it as well, but there is no substantial market for it (from fords POV). people forget, this is but a small corner of the mustang market.

 

[19COBRA93]

It is for sure. We internet traffic folk seem to think we're all alone.

 

[Rob72]

yes.

im telling you guys, i think the #7&8 cylinders just run hotter due to the flow of the coolant (think original 03/04 cobras) and tuners will have to adjust their tunes accordingly.

I'm considering the Boss oil cooler to help with this.