forgestar pic request!

[TRC51]

1.) As I indicated, I read through FWS terms and conditions and it doesn't state anywhere that you cannot cancel an order. This is all they have on their site with regards to returns/refunds:

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Nothing in there states you cannot cancel an order. It only address returns which is obviously AFTER you have received the wheels. There is NOHING about once the wheels have been machined, etc etc. And as far as I know there is no binding industry law.

Furthermore, these wheels are really only "custom" because the manufacturer chooses to make them as they are ordered, instead of keeping them in stock. These are not 1-off pieces and I certainly won't be the only person to order 18x10's for a 05-up mustang in their recommended offset. In my opinion if this is how they choose to do it, they have to expect and assume some risk in the fact that some orders will be cancelled and have some means of stocking those orders. Funny thing is I've seen several posts on forums where Forgestar is selling wheels in stock ready to go from order cancellations. So I know it's something they will do. And if these were truly 100% custom 1-off items, it would be different and they should have it all in writing that once you click "order" you can't at any point cancel, or that you are subject to this or that fee or whatever. However, that's not the case.

2.) FWS advertises "price match guarantee" right on their website. They are refusing to honor this. How can it be a "guarantee" if they won't even price match before I've even received the product? This to me is false advertising and that alone is enough to justify my claim. And for the record, there is also NOTHING in their terms and conditions explaining this claim they make on their home page. Also, its my understanding Forgestar takes 1/2 @ order and the other 1/2 when it ships (Even though I paid FWS the full amt up front) so they should have no probs adjusting the price to honor their own "Guarantee."

I don't agree with you, but that's ok. If they have "cancelled order" rims in stock, how do you know they didn't charge a cancellation fee to the customer who ordered them? Whatever the case, keep barking and maybe they will do something for you. I personally am not going to hold either one of these companies at fault for a circumstance that they are not responsible for.

 

[Kbreeze]

I don't agree with you, but that's ok. If they have "cancelled order" rims in stock, how do you know they didn't charge a cancellation fee to the customer who ordered them? Whatever the case, keep barking and maybe they will do something for you. I personally am not going to hold either one of these companies at fault for a circumstance that they are not responsible for.

Correct, I don't know they didn't charge a cancellation fee, but 2 things you are forgetting. First off, they are flat out refusing to cancel the order. They never said ok but you are subject to this fee. Secondly, even if they did say that it would not hold up and you know why? Because there is nothing in writing stating that "If you cancel an order you are subject to this fee." This isn't the wild west. Companies can't just make sh*t up as they go, it all has to be in writing in something called "Terms and conditions" ..and why you are not familiar with this concept is beyond me.. What matters is what's in writing. And I love how you also completely disregard the fact that FWS advertises a price match guarantee which they are refusing to honor.

 

[HellsBells]

And I love how you also completely disregard the fact that FWS advertises a price match guarantee which they are refusing to honor.

Got a link to this? Usually, price matching doesn't apply retroactively.

 

[TRC51]

Correct, I don't know they didn't charge a cancellation fee, but 2 things you are forgetting. First off, they are flat out refusing to cancel the order. They never said ok but you are subject to this fee. Secondly, even if they did say that it would not hold up and you know why? Because there is nothing in writing stating that "If you cancel an order you are subject to this fee." This isn't the wild west. Companies can't just make sh*t up as they go, it all has to be in writing in something called "Terms and conditions" ..and why you are not familiar with this concept is beyond me.. What matters is what's in writing. And I love how you also completely disregard the fact that FWS advertises a price match guarantee which they are refusing to honor.

Look... I'm not pissed at you... I don't give a shit. It's your problem. Who are you mad at? Me? I think you're more pissed at yourself because you didn't find the best price the first time around and you are taking it out on everybody else. Suck it up! Plenty of times I have ordered stuff and found it cheaper a couple weeks later. OH WELL! On that note... find someone else to yell at.

 

[Kbreeze]

Got a link to this? Usually, price matching doesn't apply retroactively.

www.forgedwheelsource.com it's right on their front page and it was also stated in the checout when I placed the order.

You can click in their Terms and conditions link at the bottom of the page. It doesn't say anywhere that you can't cancel an order. And there is no elaboration on their price guarantee either.

I agree about the retroactive thing to a point. Obviously you can't come knocking on their door 3 months later after you've had use of the product and attempt to get a refund because you found them cheaper. But I think all price match guarantee's should be effective at least until the product actually ships, especially since up until that point you SHOULD be able to cancel the order, unless otherwise stated...which it wasn't.

 

[Kbreeze]

Look... I'm not pissed at you... I don't give a shit. It's your problem. Who are you mad at? Me? I think you're more pissed at yourself because you didn't find the best price the first time around and you are taking it out on everybody else. Suck it up! Plenty of times I have ordered stuff and found it cheaper a couple weeks later. OH WELL! On that note... find someone else to yell at.

I wasn't yelling at you I was simply responding. You want to disagree with me but can't handle a rebuttal? If you don't give a sh*t then don't even comment.

 

[TRC51]

I wasn't yelling at you I was simply responding. You want to disagree with me but can't handle a rebuttal? If you don't give a sh*t then don't even comment.

OK, here is a rebuttal:

Who created this problem? Who initiated the issue? FWS took the order, Forgestar made the wheels and now are ready to ship them. They met their end of the deal.

What you are doing is similar to putting a deposit down on a car that you are going to pick up in a week and then trying to dicker on the price when you go to pick it up. You commited to the sale. I don't see how FWS or Forgestar can be resposible when they were just following through with the order you gave them. Regardless of their Terms and Conditions.

That said, as I said before, keep barking at them and maybe they will do something for you. BUT, I will not hold any ill feelings toward either one of these companies because you missed out on a deal.

 

[Kbreeze]

OK, here is a rebuttal:

Who created this problem? Who initiated the issue? FWS took the order, Forgestar made the wheels and now are ready to ship them. They met their end of the deal.

What you are doing is similar to putting a deposit down on a car that you are going to pick up in a week and then trying to dicker on the price when you go to pick it up. You commited to the sale. I don't see how FWS or Forgestar can be resposible when they were just following through with the order you gave them. Regardless of their Terms and Conditions.

That said, as I said before, keep barking at them and maybe they will do something for you. BUT, I will not hold any ill feelings toward either one of these companies because you missed out on a deal.

I didn't "create a problem" I simply asked them to honor something they blatantly advertise. They refused to do that and also refused to cancel the order, which nothing in their terms and conditions states I can't do. Yet, in your mind they are meeting their end of the deal. Seems the way you are defining "deal" is pretty limited and one-sided in their favor. To me part of the "deal" is that ordering from them includes a price guarantee (for at least up until the time the product ships) and also that I have the right to cancel the order up until that point as well. and what's ACTUALLY IN WRITING (or not in writing) supports this.

You are one of those people who only sees black and white and ignore all the details in between no matter how vital they might be. And for the record, no they are not ready to ship, they were only machined (at least that's what they claim) and not even powder coated yet. Unless you know something I don't? Honestly you sound like someone who works for Forgestar or FWS.

And as an aside, I have tried to work with both FWS and Forgestar to resolve this amicably. Neither of them would budge or offer any kind of compromise. There are complaints all over the internet about Forgestars customer service...and I can see why.

 

[TRC51]

Honestly you sound like someone who works for Forgestar of FWS.

LOL... you KNOW I don't.

Whatever you want to believe is fine. Just don't go expecting everyone else to side with you. What do you expect FWS to do? If forgestar is telling FWS that they are going to have to pay for those wheels, do you think it's fair that FWS has to suck it up so you can go get a better deal somewhere else?

On the other side, what do you expect Forgestar to do, tell FWS "Go ahead and cancel the order, it looks like the customer is going to order the same wheel from someone else."? How would you feel if you were FWS and your vendor (forgestar) just did that to you? Forgestar and FWS have a dealer/vendor relationship that will have to be maintained LOOOOOONG after you have bought, mounted for 2 months, sold and completely forgot about them.

Yeah.... black and white. Geez. Stop whining to us, keep calling them and hope that they work it out for you. If they do, good on them.

For the record, I have absolutely no affiliation with the automotive accessory business... or anything automotive for that matter. I am just famliar with these types of situations based on the work I do. Although I wish I did know someone so I could get to go to SEMA some year. Oh... and I didn't want to buy forgestars because I didn't want a custom wheel for fear I would screw it up. There... I said it out loud. lol

 

[HellsBells]

I didn't "create a problem" I simply asked them to honor something they blatantly advertise. They refused to do that and also refused to cancel the order, which nothing in their terms and conditions states I can't do. Yet, in your mind they are meeting their end of the deal. Seems the way you are defining "deal" is pretty limited and one-sided in their favor. To me part of the "deal" is that ordering from them includes a price guarantee (for at least up until the time the product ships) and also that I have the right to cancel the order up until that point as well. and what's ACTUALLY IN WRITING (or not in writing) supports this.

You are one of those people who only sees black and white and ignore all the details in between no matter how vital they might be. And for the record, no they are not ready to ship, they were only machined (at least that's what they claim) and not even powder coated yet. Unless you know something I don't? Honestly you sound like someone who works for Forgestar or FWS.

And as an aside, I have tried to work with both FWS and Forgestar to resolve this amicably. Neither of them would budge or offer any kind of compromise. There are complaints all over the internet about Forgestars customer service...and I can see why.

Legally, they don't owe you anything. Just FYI, in a court of law, you'd be in the wrong here.

 

[Kbreeze]

LOL... you KNOW I don't.

Whatever you want to believe is fine. Just don't go expecting everyone else to side with you. What do you expect FWS to do? If forgestar is telling FWS that they are going to have to pay for those wheels, do you think it's fair that FWS has to suck it up so you can go get a better deal somewhere else?

On the other side, what do you expect Forgestar to do, tell FWS "Go ahead and cancel the order, it looks like the customer is going to order the same wheel from someone else."? How would you feel if you were FWS and your vendor (forgestar) just did that to you? Forgestar and FWS have a dealer/vendor relationship that will have to be maintained LOOOOOONG after you have bought, mounted for 2 months, sold and completely forgot about them.

LOL, you fail to realize that's THEIR problem, between them and their supplier!!

1.) If that's the agreement FWS has with Forgestar that once they order wheels they are stuck with them then THEY ASSUME THAT RESPONSIBILITY.

2.) If they want to relieve themselves of that responsibility and pass it on to the end-user, well then they need to specify that in their terms and conditions that you cannot cancel an order!! In fact they should take it further, be a responsible vendor who ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT CUSTOMER RELATIONS and make sure their customers are aware that once they place the order there are no cancellations. Sh*t have some big flashing text when you order: "NOTE: NO CANCELLATIONS. ONCE ORDER IS PLACED YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WHEELS." That wouldn't be necessary, it would just be good customer relations and good communications. All they really need is it in their T&H to cover themselves, but they don't' even have that. Please show me the F-ing mystery law out there in wonderland that says I have no legal right to cancel the order. Otherwise it's all what's in writing in the contract between 2 individual entities.

And none of this would even be a problem if THEY JUST WOULD HONOR THEIR "PRICE GUARANTEE"!! No cancellation needed if they would do that!!

 

[Kbreeze]

Legally, they don't owe you anything. Just FYI, in a court of law, you'd be in the wrong here.

Please explain why I have no "legal" right to cancel the order.

 

[HellsBells]

Please explain why I have no "legal" right to cancel the order.

Burden is on plaintiff so you'd have to explain it. I personally can't think of a good argument.

I still can't find the price match guarantee description so I can't really comment on that until you link us. All I see is that it says "Price Match Guarantee" but there are no terms or conditions written down anywhere.

Like TRC51 said, you had contract to purchase some wheels, for which consideration was the wheels and the cash you paid. It was done in writing, which passes the statute of frauds (again, I'm assuming the wheels cost more than $500). You knew it would take a while because it is a custom-made good (being custom-made, it must pass the statute of frauds, which it does).

On that note, nowhere in their Terms & Conditions does it ever mention cancellation. In that respect, they've never made a promise that you could cancel your wheels before them being machined or after, or at any time whatsoever. They did you a courtesy of telling you the wheels were machined and they can't do anything about it. This suggests that perhaps if the wheels has not been machined yet, they would have waived the contract between you and them and given your money back--but that is not the case here.

Your request to have them change the finish does not constitute a modification of the contract. To have an effective modification to a contract, there must be consideration. You're not giving them anything extra and trying to get something that was not originally bargained for. The only exception to this is if you live in Louisiana and FWS is an Louisiana corporation, since they have not adopted Article 2 of the UCC. Therefore, this would not apply.

I could go on but in a nutshell, they have none of the legal obligations that you purport them to have.

This is not legal advice.

 

[Kbreeze]

Burden is on plaintiff so you'd have to explain it. I personally can't think of a good argument.

I still can't find the price match guarantee description so I can't really comment on that until you link us. All I see is that it says "Price Match Guarantee" but there are no terms or conditions written down anywhere.

Like TRC51 said, you had contract to purchase some wheels, for which consideration was the wheels and the cash you paid. It was done in writing, which passes the statute of frauds (again, I'm assuming the wheels cost more than $500). You knew it would take a while because it is a custom-made good (being custom-made, it must pass the statute of frauds, which it does).

On that note, nowhere in their Terms & Conditions does it ever mention cancellation. In that respect, they've never made a promise that you could cancel your wheels before them being machined or after, or at any time whatsoever. They did you a courtesy of telling you the wheels were machined and they can't do anything about it. This suggests that perhaps if the wheels has not been machined yet, they would have waived the contract between you and them and given your money back--but that is not the case here.

Your request to have them change the finish does not constitute a modification of the contract. To have an effective modification to a contract, there must be consideration. You're not giving them anything extra and trying to get something that was not originally bargained for. The only exception to this is if you live in Louisiana and FWS is an Louisiana corporation, since they have not adopted Article 2 of the UCC. Therefore, this would not apply.

I could go on but in a nutshell, they have none of the legal obligations that you purport them to have.

This is not legal advice.

I still think they need to specify in their T&H that I cannot cancel and not vice versa If it was a 1-off product it would be different but this is only so much of a "custom" product. It's only custom because they decide not to stock them. It's not like it can't be resold to a million other 05-up mustang owners. and I also think a "Price match guarantee" should definitely be applicable at least up until the time the product actually ships.

 

[HellsBells]

I still think they need to specify in their T&H that I cannot cancel and not vice versa If it was a 1-off product it would be different but this is only so much of a "custom" product. It's only custom because they decide not to stock them. It's not like it can't be resold to a million other 05-up mustang owners. and I also think a "Price match guarantee" should definitely be applicable at least up until the time the product actually ships.

While I do agree with some of what you say, I'm just saying that the law does not agree with you at all (except maybe in Louisiana, I'm not familiar with their laws).

First, they don't need to put in their terms and conditions that you don't have the right to cancel. For the same reason, they don't need to specify in their terms and conditions whether or not you may have the right to eat a sandwich. Omission is just as important as inclusion.

There are no gradations of "custom goods". It is either custom or not. In your case, it clearly was as they would have never made the product for you if not for your order. Just because it can be resold doesn't mean anything. You could argue for mitigation in court but that still doesn't cure the breach of contract issue and at most, it reduces damages.

Again, for the price match guarantee, it's very uncommon for companies to do what you're saying. It is definitely not trade custom (Parol Evidence Rule) so you don't really have any good arguments there.

The bottom line is, if you are so inclined as to sue them over it, you will lose. Your best bet is probably to issue the claim with your credit card company, which you did. They most likely will refund you because it's easier for them to deal with the company without you in the picture. Just hope that FWS does not elect to sue you or your credit card company (which potentially could lead to charges against you for fraud).

Again, this is not legal advice.

 

[TRC51]

LOL, you fail to realize that's THEIR problem, between them and their supplier!!

1.) If that's the agreement FWS has with Forgestar that once they order wheels they are stuck with them then THEY ASSUME THAT RESPONSIBILITY.

2.) If they want to relieve themselves of that responsibility and pass it on to the end-user, well then they need to specify that in their terms and conditions that you cannot cancel an order!! In fact they should take it further, be a responsible vendor who ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT CUSTOMER RELATIONS and make sure their customers are aware that once they place the order there are no cancellations. Sh*t have some big flashing text when you order: "NOTE: NO CANCELLATIONS. ONCE ORDER IS PLACED YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WHEELS." That wouldn't be necessary, it would just be good customer relations and good communications. All they really need is it in their T&H to cover themselves, but they don't' even have that. Please show me the F-ing mystery law out there in wonderland that says I have no legal right to cancel the order. Otherwise it's all what's in writing in the contract between 2 individual entities.

And none of this would even be a problem if THEY JUST WOULD HONOR THEIR "PRICE GUARANTEE"!! No cancellation needed if they would do that!!

As long as you're not yelling..... You are still preaching to the wrong person. Let me say it again...

Keep calling them and hope they will do something for you. Stop hoping this thread is going to bring you some satisfaction.

 

[Kbreeze]

While I do agree with some of what you say, I'm just saying that the law does not agree with you at all (except maybe in Louisiana, I'm not familiar with their laws).

First, they don't need to put in their terms and conditions that you don't have the right to cancel. For the same reason, they don't need to specify in their terms and conditions whether or not you may have the right to eat a sandwich. Omission is just as important as inclusion.

There are no gradations of "custom goods". It is either custom or not. In your case, it clearly was as they would have never made the product for you if not for your order. Just because it can be resold doesn't mean anything. You could argue for mitigation in court but that still doesn't cure the breach of contract issue and at most, it reduces damages.

Again, for the price match guarantee, it's very uncommon for companies to do what you're saying. It is definitely not trade custom (Parol Evidence Rule) so you don't really have any good arguments there.

The bottom line is, if you are so inclined as to sue them over it, you will lose. Your best bet is probably to issue the claim with your credit card company, which you did. They most likely will refund you because it's easier for them to deal with the company without you in the picture. Just hope that FWS does not elect to sue you or your credit card company (which potentially could lead to charges against you for fraud).

Again, this is not legal advice.

I understand you are just saying what you know the law to be and I appreciate I just can't bring myself to agree I guess.

Where I work we sell truely custom goods and in our T&H we have a very specific order cancellation policy. we break everything down and dot all our i's and cross our t's. Maybe the law disagrees this is necessary but IMO it is definitely necessary. I believe in being thorough and very clear in communication with our customers on the ordering process so they know exactly what to expect. We also have them sign off on all our T&H. In this case of a very loosely termed "Custom" product I would think there is even more reason for a specific cancellation policy to be clearly communicated. Very simply, unless I am ordering a truly 1-off product (Like if I am having someone paint a family picture) then I should be able to cancel it prior to the product changing hands, UNLESS they specified otherwise in the purchase contract.

In terms of the "Price match guarantee", Why do they even call it a "guarantee" then? What are they guaranteeing? That they will match the price BEFORE you click the magic buy now button? What's the point of that??? If they are only going to match the price the person can just buy from the place they found it cheaper. MANY places offer price match guarantees that last well after the point of clicking the buy button. Otherwise I don't even see the point of calling it a "guarantee".

Anyhow, I'm asking them to sell me the machined face ones for the same $1340 I paid them for the silver ones so no cancellation or dispute is needed. Between Peter and FWS this should be no big deal for them to accomodate. We'll see if they respond...

 

[Kbreeze]

As long as you're not yelling..... You are still preaching to the wrong person. Let me say it again...

Keep calling them and hope they will do something for you. Stop hoping this thread is going to bring you some satisfaction.

Again, I'm only responding to you. If you don't want responses from me, then stop posting to me

 

[HellsBells]

I understand you are just saying what you know the law to be and I appreciate I just can't bring myself to agree I guess.

Where I work we sell truely custom goods and in our T&H we have a very specific order cancellation policy. we break everything down and dot all our i's and cross our t's. Maybe the law disagrees this is necessary but IMO it is definitely necessary. I believe in being thorough and very clear in communication with our customers on the ordering process so they know exactly what to expect. We also have them sign off on all our T&H. In this case of a very loosely termed "Custom" product I would think there is even more reason for a specific cancellation policy to be clearly communicated.

Not to be harsh but this sounds like you knew what you were doing. In legalese, you may be considered a "sophisticated" party in the eyes of law--which now means that you should have known better and should have asked the specifics about cancellation and the price match guarantee. In the US legal system, you don't get points for being oblivious and/or uninformed and you get points against you if you should have known better.

In terms of the "Price match guarantee", Why do they even call it a "guarantee" then? What are they guaranteeing? That they will match the price BEFORE you click the magic buy now button? What's the point of that??? If they are only going to match the price the person can just buy from the place they found it cheaper. MANY places offer price match guarantees that last well after the point of clicking the buy button. Otherwise I don't even see the point of calling it a "guarantee".

Most of the time, a price match guarantee is that they will match the price of any competitor when you are shopping around. A lot of places will say, we will match and beat any advertised price by an authorized vendor.

Please give us examples of "MANY places" that offer price match guarantees that last well after the point of purchasing the item. The only place I can think of is Amazon on pre-order items. Sometimes, Amazon (out of goodwill) will refund you the difference on recently purchased items if there is a price drop shortly after your purchase.

Anyhow, I'm asking them to sell me the machined face ones for the same $1340 I paid them for the silver ones so no cancellation or dispute is needed. Between Peter and FWS this should be no big deal for them to accomodate. We'll see if they respond...

Again, I agree with you. I don't see what the big deal is but legally, they don't have to do anything other than give you what you originally ordered. In any case, I hope they make it right for you and the rest of us as well.

Out of curiosity, did you ever consider 19" wheels? I'm thinking of getting a 19" set for forgestars.

 

[TRC51]

Again, I'm only responding to you. If you don't want responses from me, then stop posting to me

Understood... then I shall respond in kind:

I think enough has been said ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL VENDETTA!!!!!!!!

CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK ON TOPIC ABOUT POSTING PIC's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am just responding, not yelliing though.