Tie Rod Ends

skwerl

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When I tore a boot I just went ahead and bought Moog tie rod ends. They were only $15 each and took less than an hour to swap. You will want to accurately measure your toe-in before and after unless you plan on getting an alignment.
 

07gtcs

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You are my hero, I didnt know those existed. I currently have the Scott Drake bumpsteer kit and I fucking hate them now. I gotta rub them down in grease every few weeks or the resistance can actually be heard in the power steering pump. The heim joints dont ever stay centered they either tilt up or down trashing the alignment until I get under there and center them back up.... The only nice thing I have to say is they are red and look nice.

Edit, just found these. They are off the '13 302S.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22438

Coming from Ford Racing I wouldnt imagine they are just as much of a PITA.
 
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908ssp

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.....The heim joints dont ever stay centered they either tilt up or down trashing the alignment until I get under there and center them back up.... ....


Sorry this is nonsense. If the heims do twist they don't change the alignment as it is the rack that allows the heims to rotate and they are not rotating on the threads.
 
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Powered by Ford

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Sorry this is nonsense. If the heims do twist they don't change the alignment as it is the rake that allows the heims to rotate and they are not rotating on the threads.

This!

Here is an example of how a tie-rod is spec'd out...just as an FYI...
53492.gif
 

jymontoya

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You may not think you have bumpsteer, but if you are lowered, you DO. It may not be enough to bother you if you're not tracking the car, but it's there. You can't argue with geometry.

Just get a bumpsteer kit and measure it and apply the necessary spacer stack.
 

Mr. WHO

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You may not think you have bumpsteer, but if you are lowered, you DO. It may not be enough to bother you if you're not tracking the car, but it's there. You can't argue with geometry.

Just get a bumpsteer kit and measure it and apply the necessary spacer stack.

No saying I dont, but there isnt enough to warrant bumpsteer kit, only dropped an inch. I do track the car, hints the melted tie rod boots, got hot last time out. Hell these cars have bumpsteer before you even lower them. To fix it would take more than a bumpsteer kit would do.
 

Norm Peterson

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My guess is that yes you can use it on a street driven car - but that it won't provide the levels of durability, corrosion resistance, etc., that Ford would require to meet warranty requirements under unrestricted driving conditions (weather, winter) and the minimal or nonexistent maintenance that most drivers tend to give the undercar bits.

Potentially, you can apply greater loads to the steering arms, which would be a design issue involving fatigue conditions not evaluated or tested by Ford for unrestricted street use. A conscientious owner/driver ought to be able to live with this, assuming he keeps a more diligent inspection & maintenance program than the average lowest common denominator owner does, and pays better attention to the car's condition while he drives it.


Norm
 

jymontoya

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No saying I dont, but there isnt enough to warrant bumpsteer kit, only dropped an inch. I do track the car, hints the melted tie rod boots, got hot last time out. Hell these cars have bumpsteer before you even lower them. To fix it would take more than a bumpsteer kit would do.


It's only a little bit more for a bumpsteer kit, and it will last many times longer, especially given the fact that you did melt the tie rod boots once already.
 

07gtcs

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Sorry this is nonsense. If the heims do twist they don't change the alignment as it is the rack that allows the heims to rotate and they are not rotating on the threads.

I personally watched this on an alignment rack on more then one occasion. If there is something else that could cause this effect and its not actually the Heims fault I am more then open to discussion to resolve the issue I have.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Think about it for a minute... the determining factor for toe is in reality the distance between the centers of the tie-rod studs, nothing more. For toe to change, you would have to alter that distance. The inner tie-rod is a ball-and-socket joint connected to the steering rack, and NO amount of rotation will alter the net length of that portion of the distance. The tie-rod stud is a fixed point, as well, centered through the pivot of the Heim joint. No alteration there, either. The ONLY way that you can alter that distance (stud-to-stud) is by rotating the inner tie-rod relative to the outer tie rod. Yes, if everything was IMMACULATELY clean, I could see rotating the outer tie rod slightly (pivoting the Heim joint back and forth against the stud) causing the adjuster sleeve to rotate on the inner tie rod, generating a very small (but measurable) amount of toe change as it spun on the threads cut into the inner tie-rod. This would essentially require the jam nut between the Heim and the adjuster sleeve to be tight, the jam nut on the inner tie rod to be loose, and that there was more stiction in the inner tie-rod socket joint than there was on the adjuster sleeve. Possible? Yes. Likely, unless in the midst of adjustment? Not hardly. Once the jam nuts are tight, simply rocking the tie rod back and forth will not cause a length change, therefore, no toe change.

Now, if you have a severe enough bump-steer issue, you CAN generate a toe change simply by loading or unloading one side, like hanging on the tie-rod while on the alignment rack. The essential definition of bump-steer is "dynamic toe change," in other words, a change in the toe angle (or measurement) that varies as the suspension is cycled above and below static ride height. If your grease monkey didn't have everything snugged down, or had unloaded the suspension and didn't settle the car, then yes, your measurements could have changed. They won't if bumpsteer was set correctly, and everything was snugged down. Also, please note that you really need three hands to properly lock everything down, as well. You need to hold the inner tie-rod from rotating, you need to hold the adjuster sleeve from rotating, AND you need to then tighten the jam nut that locks the two together. If you just hold the inner, and snug down the jam nut, you WILL hit a point where the friction of the nut will exceed the friction of the adjuster on the inner rod's threads, and it will spin, slightly, before it all locks together. Again, there is a change. Once the adjuster rotates enough to bind the Heim agains the steering arm, you can apply enough torque to solidly lock the jam nut, but at that point, you've already introduced a length change. So, measure toe with the Heim flat, and it's perfect. Go to tighten the jam nut, and rotate the sleeve doing it, then look at the screen with the Heim cocked, and the toe is off. You could draw the conclusion that pivoting the Heim caused the change, but you'd be wrong. It was the sleeve rotating around the inner rod that actually caused the change. The real test is to set the toe, lock it ALL together, all jam nuts tight, THEN, and ONLY THEN, rock the Heim back and forth and see if there's actually any toe change, regardless of the actual number displayed.... There won't be.

Also, the M-3130R2 FR500C tie rod end is a part specifically designed to account for the extended length ball joint studs used on the FR500C. This will cause a MASSIVE change in bump-steer, and the 3130R2 is the perfect compensation. IS the change exactly the same as on the Steeda X5? The BMR lowers? Dunno, but if it's not, you're hosed, there's no adjustability. The 3130R4 is essentially the same as the Steeda, Maximum Motorsports, Scott Drake, Granatelli, etc. "bump steer kits," as it allows you to simply move spacers around above and below the Heim to alter the effective length of the stud. Are they all created equally? Same quality? You'll have to decide yourself, however, the parts in generic description are all the same... Heim joint, custom taper-stud with extended reach threaded section, a couple of Nylock nuts, Aluminum sleeve to link the Heim shank to the inner tie rod, two jam nuts, and an assortment of spacers to make the adjustment with. Where the kits (may) differ is in the quality of the parts. We all know Granatelly generally uses crap parts (uber-cheap Heim, potmetal spacers that you could crush with hot-dog tongs, etc.), and we know that MM and Steeda generally use high-grade, hence the price difference.
 
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leviathon

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im having this issue now, my tie rods have way to much play in them, i just cant really see spending that much for a kit is all
 

kevinatfms

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i run the FR500S outer tie rods. have had the set on my car now for a LONG time with no wear issues at all. great pieces for the money.
 

HellsBells

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It's only a little bit more for a bumpsteer kit, and it will last many times longer, especially given the fact that you did melt the tie rod boots once already.

Except dialing in a bump steer kit takes HOURS and/or hundreds of dollars at a shop (if you can even find one that knows how to do it). And just because you are lowered doesn't mean you automatically have problematic bump steer.
 

jymontoya

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Except dialing in a bump steer kit takes HOURS and/or hundreds of dollars at a shop (if you can even find one that knows how to do it). And just because you are lowered doesn't mean you automatically have problematic bump steer.

Doesn't have to. Look around, and use similar setups as a baseline. I eyeballed mine and when the race shop checked it, we found it only needed the final small spacer added.

"Problematic" is relative. I personally feel that ANY direction change from touching curbing on the track is unacceptable. After I added the UPR kit, which ended up needing THE WHOLE SPACER STACK, the difference was NIGHT and DAY. Even though the previous bumpsteer didn't cause me to loose control, it was far from confidence inspring. And that's exactly what you will get when you get it corrected. CONFIDENCE.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Except dialing in a bump steer kit takes HOURS and/or hundreds of dollars at a shop (if you can even find one that knows how to do it).

I have to disagree here. Bump-steer is an available measurement on the John Bean alignment racks, and most likely the Coates, Hunter, and the others as well. Whether the shop/tech knows how to use it, though, is a different matter. It's a simple measurement to take on a rack: Once you have a static toe measurement, either raise (jack on frame) or lower (come-along to the base of the rack) the front suspension around 2", and let the rack take a new snapshot. That will show your bump-steer, also called "toe curve change."

When it comes to actually making the adjustments, on mine at least it was simple. 18x9.5" wheels, +35mm offset, and there was MORE than enough room to leave the car on the pads, pull the bottom Nylock, rearrange the spacers, and put the Nylock back on. Total time per side was less than 5 minutes to reset, including resetting toe after each change. I spent less than 45 minutes total on the rack, and that included a minor caster adjustment, resetting camber, toe, AND adjusting bump-steer. If you budget two hours for the whole process, including the alignment, you'll have a comfortable cushion. Now, at a $95 labor rate, that comes to $190, but if you back out the "standard" $100 charge for a 4-wheel alignment, you really only spent $90 to bump-steer the car. Note that adjusting bump-steer is NOT a regular maintenance item! You set it once for your suspension setup, and you're done. No need to touch it again unless you make some significant change to your setup, like dropping the ride-height another inch, or changing ball-joint length, relocating the control arm pickup points, significant caster angle change, etc. If you track the car regularly, or have made significant changes to the suspension, then I think it's well worth doing, even if it turns out you're fine.


And just because you are lowered doesn't mean you automatically have problematic bump steer.
I couldn't agree more! The key word in your assertion is "problematic." If, however, you notice the car gets darty under braking, tends to carom off at some random angle when you whack a berm on track, or tends to veer off course with a one-wheel compression over a speed bump, you may have PROBLEMATIC bump-steer issues. Easy enough to fix, though. Hell, you can do it at home. Assuming you have a fixed caster angle, or have that set properly now, you can measure and reset bump steer easily. First, park the car with the front tires on 3-4 sheets of newsprint, to allow a lower-friction pivot point, on as plane a floor as you can find. Use a simple set of toe plates (3"x1" aluminum angle stock, about 2' long per side), and measure the difference in width right in front of and behind the tires. This will give you a toe dimension. Next, measure from the floor to the top of the fender opening, pop the hood, drop a moving blanket over the radiator support, and pile sandbags, salt bags, scrap rotors or whatever on it to weight down the front end until you drop the car by around 2". Re-measure the toe differential. If it's the same, or say within 1/16", you're good. If you really want to be anal-retentive, you can plot the numbers every 1/2" or so, all the way through bump and rebound.

The "proper" way is to measure the ride-height at a specific point on the frame, fabricate a wood block to that length, pull the spring, and put the car on the block. That lets you cycle the suspension pretty easily while you measure toe change with DIAL INDICATORS... For the average guy (or even the track junkie that isn't pro), that's kind of overkill, and the toe plates work well enough.
 

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