Tie Rod Ends

HellsBells

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I have to disagree here. Bump-steer is an available measurement on the John Bean alignment racks, and most likely the Coates, Hunter, and the others as well. Whether the shop/tech knows how to use it, though, is a different matter. It's a simple measurement to take on a rack: Once you have a static toe measurement, either raise (jack on frame) or lower (come-along to the base of the rack) the front suspension around 2", and let the rack take a new snapshot. That will show your bump-steer, also called "toe curve change."

When it comes to actually making the adjustments, on mine at least it was simple. 18x9.5" wheels, +35mm offset, and there was MORE than enough room to leave the car on the pads, pull the bottom Nylock, rearrange the spacers, and put the Nylock back on. Total time per side was less than 5 minutes to reset, including resetting toe after each change. I spent less than 45 minutes total on the rack, and that included a minor caster adjustment, resetting camber, toe, AND adjusting bump-steer. If you budget two hours for the whole process, including the alignment, you'll have a comfortable cushion. Now, at a $95 labor rate, that comes to $190, but if you back out the "standard" $100 charge for a 4-wheel alignment, you really only spent $90 to bump-steer the car. Note that adjusting bump-steer is NOT a regular maintenance item! You set it once for your suspension setup, and you're done. No need to touch it again unless you make some significant change to your setup, like dropping the ride-height another inch, or changing ball-joint length, relocating the control arm pickup points, significant caster angle change, etc. If you track the car regularly, or have made significant changes to the suspension, then I think it's well worth doing, even if it turns out you're fine.


I couldn't agree more! The key word in your assertion is "problematic." If, however, you notice the car gets darty under braking, tends to carom off at some random angle when you whack a berm on track, or tends to veer off course with a one-wheel compression over a speed bump, you may have PROBLEMATIC bump-steer issues. Easy enough to fix, though. Hell, you can do it at home. Assuming you have a fixed caster angle, or have that set properly now, you can measure and reset bump steer easily. First, park the car with the front tires on 3-4 sheets of newsprint, to allow a lower-friction pivot point, on as plane a floor as you can find. Use a simple set of toe plates (3"x1" aluminum angle stock, about 2' long per side), and measure the difference in width right in front of and behind the tires. This will give you a toe dimension. Next, measure from the floor to the top of the fender opening, pop the hood, drop a moving blanket over the radiator support, and pile sandbags, salt bags, scrap rotors or whatever on it to weight down the front end until you drop the car by around 2". Re-measure the toe differential. If it's the same, or say within 1/16", you're good. If you really want to be anal-retentive, you can plot the numbers every 1/2" or so, all the way through bump and rebound.

The "proper" way is to measure the ride-height at a specific point on the frame, fabricate a wood block to that length, pull the spring, and put the car on the block. That lets you cycle the suspension pretty easily while you measure toe change with DIAL INDICATORS... For the average guy (or even the track junkie that isn't pro), that's kind of overkill, and the toe plates work well enough.

Agreed on all points except, like you said, the proper way involves pulling the suspension apart and cycling the suspension through its length of travel--which I have to argue takes hours from start to finish.

As for jymontoya, you got lucky. There's no real way to eyeball hundredth of an inch and expect it to come out near perfect like yours everytime.

I also disagree (as do the lovely folks at Maximum Motorsport) that you should use a bumpsteer kit even if you don't have bad bumpsteer. You could just be making things worse at that point.
 

jymontoya

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I also disagree (as do the lovely folks at Maximum Motorsport) that you should use a bumpsteer kit even if you don't have bad bumpsteer. You could just be making things worse at that point.

:ugh1:

The point of using a 'bumpsteer kit' in that case would just be to improve the longevity of the outer rod ends from the high temps created during tracking. You don't HAVE to install ANY spacers with the kit... and just use it as a normal 'rod end' replacement kit, but with a more reliable heim joint.
 

HellsBells

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:ugh1:

The point of using a 'bumpsteer kit' in that case would just be to improve the longevity of the outer rod ends from the high temps created during tracking. You don't HAVE to install ANY spacers with the kit... and just use it as a normal 'rod end' replacement kit, but with a more reliable heim joint.

That's like saying you should put in forged rods, forged pistons, and forged crankshaft for your otherwise stock vehicle and daily driven vehicle--you know, for longevity's sake. Makes no sense.
 

jymontoya

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Right, it makes no sense to EASILY replace a tie rod end with something that will last in these conditions... Right...

Did you even read the thread? Do you realize that the OP burnt up his tie rod ends from tracking?

Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results... Stupidity. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
 
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HellsBells

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Right, it makes no sense to EASILY replace a tie rod end with something that will last in these conditions... Right...

Did you even read the thread? Do you realize that the OP burnt up his tie rod ends from tracking?

Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results... Stupidity. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Cool story bro tell it again.
 

Norm Peterson

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Did you even read the thread? Do you realize that the OP burnt up his tie rod ends from tracking?
Melted the boots, actually. One would have to prove that the tierod ends generated the heat to do so all by themselves for a bumpsteer kit to be the proper fix. Otherwise, more durable boots might be the answer.

Never mind that OP's car appears to be a street driven car, and rod ends in street use have durability problems of their own.


Norm
 

Mr. WHO

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Keep in mind that while I do track my car, the picture in my sig it what it looks like 95% of the year and I sure as hell dont use those rims and tires for the track. I only get to do 3-5 events a year, when Uncle Sam lets me stay home.
 

HellsBells

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Keep in mind that while I do track my car, the picture in my sig it what it looks like 95% of the year and I sure as hell dont use those rims and tires for the track. I only get to do 3-5 events a year, when Uncle Sam lets me stay home.

I would just replace them with factory tie rod ends. You gotta do a cost/benefit analysis here. I think any reasonable person in your position would see that it's not worth getting the bumpsteer kit or those super expensive rod ends. I'm lowered about 3-4" and I have no noticeable bumpsteer.
 

Mr. WHO

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^I agree. I was actually looking into doing just the boots, but got to thinking and will replace the ends.

Main purpose for this post was to see if the boots are any good, I mean they use them on the race 500's.
 

Chim-Chim

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Just wrap the stockers with a layer of the high end adhesive foil duct tape. I have been doing this for years at the suggestion of one of Rehagen's team members and have never had an issue with melted boots.

Not normal duct tape, but the stuff that is actually aluminum with an adhesive backing.
 

HellsBells

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Means you don't notice it not that it isn't there. :2cents:

True but I know it's not there. Partly because I've tried to let it bumpsteer and it doesn't. Also because I have very little suspension travel :crazy:
 

Saleen S281

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Back from the dead I know, but I didnt want to start a new thread if I didnt have to.
I have a Saleen S281 and I noticed that my outer tie rod ends are shot. So since I have to replace them, I have several questions. As I see it, I have several options.
A. Just replace the outer tie rod with a quality Moog piece.
B. Get a Steeda bump steer kit I found for around $125 shipped.

Also, I have 82k miles so I'm wondering if I should replace the inner tie rod as well since I'll probably need an alignment. I dont remember having much bump steed with the Saleen suspension, I think there was some but not very much. What do you guys think?
 

leviathon

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I have the saleen suspension on my mustang also, I have just replaced them with standard ones but for I have heard that the steeda kit is the way to go

Back from the dead I know, but I didnt want to start a new thread if I didnt have to.
I have a Saleen S281 and I noticed that my outer tie rod ends are shot. So since I have to replace them, I have several questions. As I see it, I have several options.
A. Just replace the outer tie rod with a quality Moog piece.
B. Get a Steeda bump steer kit I found for around $125 shipped.

Also, I have 82k miles so I'm wondering if I should replace the inner tie rod as well since I'll probably need an alignment. I dont remember having much bump steed with the Saleen suspension, I think there was some but not very much. What do you guys think?
 

Saleen S281

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Ok thanks, my car is on jack stands right now, as soon as I'm done with my o/r mod, I'm going to test drive it and see how it does. Has anyone replaced their inner tre?
 

Mr. WHO

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I went with Moog for my replacement. Late I know, but if I didnt drive my car as much I would have done a nice bumpsteer kit, just to be done with it.

If your doing the outer might as well do the inner. If they are in good shape you"ll be fine with the stockers(ie not bent, etc...). Stock replacements would be just fine unless you like to hit turns and go into the grass, then you may want to get a thicker one.
 

leviathon

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I cant find any thicker ones where did you find them? the inner tie rods i mean

I went with Moog for my replacement. Late I know, but if I didnt drive my car as much I would have done a nice bumpsteer kit, just to be done with it.

If your doing the outer might as well do the inner. If they are in good shape you"ll be fine with the stockers(ie not bent, etc...). Stock replacements would be just fine unless you like to hit turns and go into the grass, then you may want to get a thicker one.
 

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