Got A 3v With A M90? Want More Power For Free?!?

[Department Of Boost]

We are thinking about doing something trick with the M90 blown 3v’s. But we have to get our hands on one for a few hours to see if the idea is feasible. And if it is feasible we will need the car for a couple of weeks to prototype the parts up.

If you “donate” your car you will get all of the parts/upgrade free of charge.

We are located in the Detroit/Metro area. The closer you are to us the better.

PM me if your interested.

Thanks
Jason

 

[corey5988]

Damn, wish I was closer

 

[skwerl]

My issue with my M90 isn't power, it's heat. I can spin the tires at will but I can't drive around in city traffic with the AC running in 90* heat without seeing my IAT skyrocket. I don't think I've driven it more than 20 miles in the last month.

 

[702GT]

Wouldn't have anything to do with that tiny pulley you have on it now would it?

 

[Riptide]

My issue with my M90 isn't power, it's heat. I can spin the tires at will but I can't drive around in city traffic with the AC running in 90* heat without seeing my IAT skyrocket. I don't think I've driven it more than 20 miles in the last month.

^^ lol that sounds just like my experience. I don't even drive the car right now because of the heat outside. 10-15 miles down the road hello 130+ degree IATs. Getting up early or going out super late is about the only way to enjoy a drive without battling that problem.

 

[matt06]

My issue with my M90 isn't power, it's heat. I can spin the tires at will but I can't drive around in city traffic with the AC running in 90* heat without seeing my IAT skyrocket. I don't think I've driven it more than 20 miles in the last month.

how big of a tank are you running?

 

[skwerl]

how big of a tank are you running?

My setup is off a 2010 Roush. Big tank, Afco dual fan heat exchanger. I'm swapping blowers to deal with the heat issue (VMP TVS1900).

 

[Riptide]

Says shipment first week of June? When is this gonna happen? Would like to see your results regarding intake temps after you install it.

 

[skwerl]

Been pushed back to August, who knows for sure?

Jason, sorry for the derail. Care to share more details on your project?

 

[Department Of Boost]

My issue with my M90 isn't power, it's heat. I can spin the tires at will but I can't drive around in city traffic with the AC running in 90* heat without seeing my IAT skyrocket. I don't think I've driven it more than 20 miles in the last month.

We are working on more power/less heat.

If someone didn't want any more power they could have even less heat.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Jason, sorry for the derail. Care to share more details on your project?

No problem at all.

How does a conversion for GT500 blowers sound? At 450hp they run crazy cool. We see IAT's about 10-15deg over ambient. And that is running a HE with no fans! Your big Afco would perform even better.

And the conversion would be very, very inexpensive.

 

[skwerl]

Are you talking about some sort of adapter plate so the M122 will bolt up to the M90 manifold? Sounds like a good, inexpensive upgrade, but the M122 isn't that efficient either.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Are you talking about some sort of adapter plate so the M122 will bolt up to the M90 manifold? Sounds like a good, inexpensive upgrade

Yep, that.

but the M122 isn't that efficient either.

It is not a TVS, that is true. But I do not see the inefficiency/"Heaton" problems that I see people talking about all the time.

Yeah, the M122 on a 5.4L 4v with 8.4:1 compression ratio (C/R) with a 15% OD balancer and 2.6" blower pulley makes some heat. It is also WAAAAAAAAY outside of its intended performance envelope. Set up like that they are making 600+hp too. If you take any blower and get that far outside of its intended speed range it will make some serious heat. A 15% OD balancer and 2.6" blower pulley gets you a 3.12 pulley ratio. At 6,000rpm engine speed the blower speed is 18,720rpm. And that is very, very fast.

But a M122 on a 4.6L 3v with 9.8:1 is a completely different situation. The C/R is a big factor.

The following numbers are on the dyno we use (its a bit pessimistic). Both combo's are with 16deg total timing and a 11.5 a/f.

A stock GT500 5.4L 4v with the stock 8.4:1 compression ratio and a 2010+ OEM CAI running the stock pulley ratio of 2.5 (7.5" lower/3" upper) makes 440-445rwhp. At 6,000rpm engine speed the blower speed is 15,000rpm.

A stock 4.6L 3v with the stock 9.8:1 compression ratio and a 2010+ OEM GT500 CAI running a pulley ratio of 2.18 (6.55" lower/3" upper) makes 460-465rwhp. At 6,000rpm engine speed the blower speed is only 13,080.

As you can see the 4.6 makes the same 450ish HP as the GT500 but with a 15% slower blower speed. That 15% reduction in blower speed drops it right into its happy spot in regards to efficiency. We haven't tried it yet but we are going to try dropping the blower speed even more and running 18deg of total timing (still very safe) for even lower IAT's and less parasitic loss. And then we are going to try a 127mm CAI and possibly a bigger TB to see if we can slow the blower down even more and still retain 450rwhp.

The M122 is a fantastic match for the 3v. Our car (908SSP's) and the other local one (Poweredby3v) that we do testing with run stupid cool, even when it is hot out. IAT's simply are not an issue what so ever.

Yeah, in a perfect world I would rather have a 2.3L TVS opposed to a M122. But the TVS costs 5 times plus the money and the M122 doesn't have any heat issues when run the way we are running them. Its a "don't fix what aint broke" situation.

The M122 is only a "Heaton" when it is getting its guts spun out. And that is easily solved by not spinning its guts out. Or in our case "under-spinning" it.

 

[fivelinkcobra]

I'm in Lansing area and have a Roush with the m90. Pm me and lets talk.

Jim

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'm in Lansing area and have a Roush with the m90. Pm me and lets talk.

Jim

PM sent

 

[dee99gt]

Dang.. if I had a m90 on mine i'd let you use my car..

 

[Department Of Boost]

but the M122 isn't that efficient either.

How's this for staying cool. We had PoweredBy3v's (Matt) car on the dyno last week. It was 90+deg ambient. The car made five pulls back to back, the first pull already up to operating temp (no super cool, ice'd hero run crap) and over the five pulls the car only lost 6hp!

That M122 combo is not running hot.

 

[weather man]

I'm in Lansing area and have a Roush with the m90. Pm me and lets talk.

Jim

Jim, we expect an increased post rate if you actually go through with it!

 

[mpm_1]

I'd be interested in what you see with a 3.38" pulley. That should put the M122 at equal air flow with my M90 running a stock damper with a 2.49" (~8 psi set up with stock air box with K&N panel filter, FRPP twin 62 TB, stock exh manifolds). I'm really not wanting to push the stock internals / fuel pump / clutch / trans /etc beyond where they are at now although cooler temps sound good. On a 90 degree day running hard through the gears data logs show IMTs of 125 to 130 F, so 35 to 40 over ambient.

 

[fivelinkcobra]

I read a lot and post very little. Jason you have a PM, give me a call on Sun or Mon.