KABOOM! Now off to Brenspeed for a B326 stroker!

[BruceH]

Personally I dont understand how anyplace can rate something to 1000hp it makes no sense.

I'm with you there. It's just a guess and no mod motor will last forever at higher horsepower levels imo.

Based on what others have reported when their built motors have gone I'd think the most important things are the fuel supply and avoiding detonation.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Personally I dont understand how anyplace can rate something to 1000hp.

Especially when some shops have never had their 1000hp shortblocks run that hard.....ever.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Seems a rather depressing discussion... But I like Timmbo's approach to 700 rwhp. I'd like to achieve 625 with a Livernois block/heads and my KB - at least close.

Don't kill the messenger.

Getting a 2.6L KB to make over 600hp is no easy feat (I used to have one). The only time I have ever seen it done is on e85. The KB inlet piping and elbow are simply way too small (93mm). The blower doesn't get enough air.

And when the KB's are spinning hard they run HOT!

I've seen guys make more power but it was with a custom elbow and inlet tubing in the 4.5-5" range.

 

[muztangman93]

I regret not going e85 when I could have. Now Im low on funds and really wish I had. I can live with my power level but its so much safer then pump. I wish places would truly stand behind what they market. I think its ludacris that someone brands something as 1000 horsepower bust has no real world data to back it up. In my opinion if your going to market it this way then if it blows up you should warranty it. Ive heard of fresh builds blowing on the dyno during tuning really makes a guy sick to his stomach.

I wish I hadnt invested so much because at this point I have to keep investing, and in this day and age 700rwhp really isnt alot you never know when your going to pull up to a street car that will smoke you. 20 years ago 13s were quick now 9s are quick for a daily driver.

 

[BruceH]

I regret not going e85 when I could have. Now Im low on funds and really wish I had. I can live with my power level but its so much safer then pump. I wish places would truly stand behind what they market. I think its ludacris that someone brands something as 1000 horsepower bust has no real world data to back it up. In my opinion if your going to market it this way then if it blows up you should warranty it. Ive heard of fresh builds blowing on the dyno during tuning really makes a guy sick to his stomach.

I wish I hadnt invested so much because at this point I have to keep investing, and in this day and age 700rwhp really isnt alot you never know when your going to pull up to a street car that will smoke you. 20 years ago 13s were quick now 9s are quick for a daily driver.

IMO 550 is about right for a real street car. Everyone has different ideas about the subject but the best setups I've had for street duty were from 500-550. I also can remember having 408 with 4.10 gears and a 3650. It was pretty damn quick. That's why I'm setting my goals on 400-425 on the new build. Do it na and be done. Lol.

 

[skwerl]

Bruce, I can't imagine you ever being done.

 

[Department Of Boost]

IMO 550 is about right for a real street car.

I agree 100%. I would like to put a TVS on my 2012 this winter. Tuned for 525-500hp would be about perfect.

It is of course easier to do that and stop when you have a race car parked right next to it.

 

[BruceH]

Bruce, I can't imagine you ever being done.

I get that opinion a lot, lol. I'd like to be done. Maybe I can just convince others who are local to mod their cars so I can get a fix. It's almost time for the home improvement bug to kick in again so maybe I'll leave the car alone after this build.

 

[GoneFord]

Don't kill the messenger.

Getting a 2.6L KB to make over 600hp is no easy feat (I used to have one). The only time I have ever seen it done is on e85. The KB inlet piping and elbow are simply way too small (93mm). The blower doesn't get enough air.

And when the KB's are spinning hard they run HOT!

I've seen guys make more power but it was with a custom elbow and inlet tubing in the 4.5-5" range.

Understood. I wish I'd gone with the 2.8 and just underspun it until I could move to a forged rotating assembley. But it's my first time with FI. If I can't achieve the number, I might have to move to a 2.8 because I don't recall seing any custom elbows - though larger inlet piping probably woudn't prove too troublesome.

 

[weather man]

I wish I hadnt invested so much because at this point I have to keep investing, and in this day and age 700rwhp really isnt alot you never know when your going to pull up to a street car that will smoke you. 20 years ago 13s were quick now 9s are quick for a daily driver.

I think guys running 700 honest HP to the rear tire in a car you wouldn't be afraid to drive anywhere is a pretty rare beast. E85 makes it easier, but a percentage of those cars are fully caged drag cars. There are simply not a lot of shops that can do the build for a reliable car. I am sure there are cars that made it and 6 months later went kaboom!

 

[Department Of Boost]

It's almost time for the home improvement bug to kick in again so maybe I'll leave the car alone after this build.

I find guns are a good distraction form cars.

 

[BruceH]

I think guys running 700 honest HP to the rear tire in a car you wouldn't be afraid to drive anywhere is a pretty rare beast. E85 makes it easier, but a percentage of those cars are fully caged drag cars. There are simply not a lot of shops that can do the build for a reliable car. I am sure there are cars that made it and 6 months later went kaboom!

It's not that hard to get there reliably. This was my home built, self tuned result. Actual horsepower, not corrected. E85 and 19psi of D1 forced into 285 cubic inches at 10.76:1 compression. Notice I only pulled it to 6500 rpm too. It was very driveable in traffic, highway, etc. However, flooring it would produce wheel spin. Even at 70 going down the highway with 15" drag radials. It's fun for awhile but eventually you want enough traction to not blow the tires off at highway speeds. The block is currently on my engine stand and everything looks good. It was mostly driven in a normal manner but there were many wot pulls. Never got it to the track.

I find guns are a good distraction form cars.

I've been there. Had a curio & relic ffl for awhile, many modern guns have passed through my hands too. It progressed to NRA High Power competition. I held a High Master classification in High Power Rifle and Long Range. Then one day I went golfing...

Sorry for the derail Timmbo. Back to your car now.

What's it going to be? Twins or a 3.4 Whipple?

 

[JoshK]

I agree with Bruce since I have a near clone to his engine. Mine is also running at 19lbs and 700 hp. I can take the car anywhere I want without any issues. Mine is also a home built engine.

I have decided I have had enough for awhile, I will be building a stable for the mustang this year with a nice little man cave. Should keep me from spending every dime on the car for awhile as long as I can keep some distance from the forum.

 

[weather man]

It's not that hard to get there reliably. This was my home built, self tuned result.

I agree with Bruce since I have a near clone to his engine. Mine is also running at 19lbs and 700 hp. I can take the car anywhere I want without any issues. Mine is also a home built engine.

You made my case guys, there are not many like you. Don't get a big head now!

Carry on Timmbo.

 

[muztangman93]

Mine is damn near 700 not spinning it real hard. If I spun it to 7k it would make 700 im sure of it. Other then not being able to hook up the car is a street car no cage no weight reduction drove it about 2k mile round trip to mustang week with wife and kids and a/c on. Did have a fuel hose that had a rip in it but not a huge deal. Id jump in it and drive it anywhere. I will say it again though at this power level anything can happen at anytime and Im on 93 octane.

Ive not raced alot of people but theres a low 9 second grand national around here We did a 3rd gear roll and he waxed my ass pretty good his car is quiet and looks like a regular grand national to look at it from the outside so when you pull up to a light you just never know whats under the hood of the other car. His car is a full race car though with slicks running c16 full cage never seen on the streets. Only time Ive ever seen it out and its because we had a town festival. Sad thing was he said he was going to park beside me at the car show and come to find out after we raced he had to have his towed back home. Apparently a few minutes later it went kaboom. Thats what made me realize first hand that anything can happen to a built car at anytime.

 

[Timmbo]

One thing I do relentlessly to bring me down out of the clouds to reality is to find and read all the high horsepower build threads. Whether its a motor build, or adding high boost by whatever method. Have you noticed that a great percentage of these threads end abruptly often with no follow ups after they've made their single one time hero dyno run? Or epic build threads that end up with knocks and noises or performance issues that never get resolved and the thread conclusion falls off the face of the earth and dies a nasty death? The conclusion I come to is that a lot of these instances are massive financial fails. And who wants to admit defeat when its cost you 10 or 15k for a build? So yes, I take what many people post as "successful" high HP builds with a grain of salt. I see the risk of failure way more often than not. You always have the same people going "look at what this guy or that guy built. 950 hp on the dyno today!" But ya know what, you never see that car again in any other threads, or videos of it tearing up the streets a few months later. So yeah, on the forums a lot of times reality is very skewed. Gee, where do all these awesome high HP builds go? Hmmmm.....yes Tim....another reality check.

Another thing I have come to learn in high performance is you have two routes you can take. You can go with a tuner and shop that specializes in well proven moderate HP F/I kits and tunes, (i.e. Roush TVS, Whipple, Vortech) or you can go with custom high HP builds (i.e. twin turbos, E85 tuning) and tuners that will push the limit for the most power. For instance I could go back up to Brenspeed right now and come back with a 650 rwhp car on 93 running a proven Roush TVS 2.3L kit and tune and have the assurance that the tune is very safe, the driveability, reliability and longevity is great and the power is well below the rated block HP. Or I could go the custom route with twin turbos, or a very large centri (YSi) and go for 700 + on E85 using a tuner very experienced in custom builds, but custom really doesn't come with a track record of long term reliability. It's definitely a chance you take in this hobby when getting away from "kits" as opposed to custom high HP F/I setups and tunes. I think about this a lot and often wonder do I want to take the risk of going outside the safety of proven kits just to get another 100 hp? Probably exactly why I haven't pulled the trigger just yet.

 

[muztangman93]

I dont consider large blowers or twin turbos custom there are tons of complete kits out there. Custom I would maybe consider compound boost a blower with a turbo that sounds custom. You can spin a d1 to make 700rwhp but your spinning the heck out of it you can spin an f1 alot less and make the same power. People with smaller goals may go with smaller power adders. Personally Id rather have the biggest blower or turbo turned way down at least there is room to grow if you change your mind and cost is usually only slightly higher to do so.

Me I pay no attention to that rating on any block and I dont consider any 650rwhp tune from anybody exactly safe e85 or 93 octane. One weak link and its over even with the best tune. Hell you might get a bad tank of gas and it last a day who knows.

Those high horsepower builds you see are very real. Ive seen alot of the cars. Generally those are either people with crazy amounts of money or big sponsors. That way if something breaks they have it fixed in a day or two.

This is an expensive hobby Ive had alot of mustangs with blowers and probably the most power I had before was 400rwhp foxbody with a procharger. Car felt like an animal. Got into the s197 body style and decided I wanted to make some big power without really researching. Now thousands and thousands of dollars later I wish I would have left well enough alone. At first you think wow this is fun then a month later your used to the power and it never stops Ive revised my set up 3 times each time making 100 or more rwhp and after a month same thing feels slow again. Unless I hit the lottery for now Im taking a break from go fast parts. I have alot of stuff I would love to do e85 is one of them but I dont hit the strip I really only drive it around and attend car shows that are for good causes so makes no sense to really even be at the level Im at with it. I think most people find themselves in the same situation.

 

[Deez-67]

a lot of great info in this thread... I wish Brenspeed was closer to me.

 

[muztangman93]

Ive heard good things about brenspeed but I live in Indiana and tried to get them to tune my car several times through phone calls after hearing the answer on why they wouldnt tune a car with a procharger on it I was astounded. After using a couple places I found lito who does a great job right from your own home

 

[tigerhonaker]

I agree Bruce. IMO though, everything I read when related to failures of engines that are well built and forged seems to point to two common themes: detonation destroying a piston, breaking ring lands etc and over boosting blowing out head gaskets or lifting heads. I think the most responsible thing I can do to beat the odds is to keep boost at a reasonable level and run E85 on a return style system. Now there are a lot more guys out there with more "performance" experience than I so my ears are always open. So, I would think that 700 rwhp on a 1000hp rated build running 15-17 psi would not be so harsh that a tear down would be necessary every couple years or x amount of miles. I only put 5k miles or less on my car per year. But an all out race motor, 1000 rwhp + high boost 25+ lbs I can definitely see that. Bearings and thrust washers/bearings take a serious pounding. So for that reason, I think at least for me that limiting my setup to 700 rwhp on a 1000 hp rated block and keeping boost below 17 psi should be reliable for quite a while. Basically I'm going to go with whatever the tuner recommends. I have been exchanging emails with Bob Kurgan with Kurgan Motorsports down in Atlanta on my hp goals and the two routes I narrowed it down to get there. That will be either the 3.4L Whipple DOB r spec kit or the S&H twin turbo kit. Bob said with my stroker 700 rwhp is easy with an E85 return style system and 80 lb injectors. He also stated that running up to 20 psi on TTY bolts is not an issue. Bob has a great reputation for high performance builds so most likely my car will be going to him for tuning. All I can say for right now is stay tuned lol.





Great. I can see why you love that place. Brent is a real down to earth honest guy that tells the truth and not what you want to hear just to make a sale. Best customer service I've ever had from beginning to end. Have fun and take some pictures.

Hi Tim,

I and a buddy was there yesterday afternoon for awhile.
Dropped off the Mustang and off we went for the return trip home.

Saw all the gang and said the pleasantries and away we went.

They had as usual a lot of vehicles to work on.

Terry