Help with ring and pinion gear wear patterns

[Dubstep Shep]

So recently I decided to undertake a ring and pinion install. I looked through my Ford manual and did some research and it didn't seem like a huge undertaking, so long as you had the patience to redo your set up over and over again and a little bit of finesse.

Well now I'm having hell setting up my gears. They're howling, bad. Basically I found out the Ford booklet is wrong with regards to gear wear pattern diagnosis, and it seems like there's no real consensus on the different patterns on google.

My questions are:
what do all the different wear patterns mean, whether drive or coast, heel or toe, or face or flank?
What adjustments do I need to make for each pattern?
Also I know the shim set up will differ from housing to housing, but what's a "normal" set up for pinion shim, pinion bearing preload, and backlash?

 

[ummduh]

http://www.ringpinion.com/TechnicalHelp/

As for "normal", there isn't one. You can usually start with what was in there with the original setup, otherwise you're starting from scratch if you don't have a pinion depth gauge, which I'm sure you don't and probably don't know anyone with one..

 

[Dubstep Shep]

http://www.ringpinion.com/TechnicalHelp/

As for "normal", there isn't one. You can usually start with what was in there with the original setup, otherwise you're starting from scratch if you don't have a pinion depth gauge, which I'm sure you don't and probably don't know anyone with one..

Nope, I don't have one, and the ford dealer refused to do it for me.

And I checked ring and pinion. It actually conflicts with my Ford booklet (which I confirmed is wrong), but other sources have said other things.

Is it REALLY true that it's impossible to center the pattern heel toe wise, or is that just what people say because it's difficult?

 

[klaw]

Ford has revised the pinion bearing a couple times in the last year or so. You have to make sure you change the race rather than just use the old race with a new bearing. You'd be surprised how common it is for guys to skip changing out the races during rebuilds. The old style race is not compatible with the new style bearing. Ratech makes a pinion depth setting tool for $30 you can buy through Summit. Use an old pinion bearing for the initial setup. I used a flapper wheel on my air die grinder to hog out the inner bearing so that it slides on/off the pinion shaft relatively easily. Using the setting tool, an old pinion nut, and the setup bearing it's easy to get the right pinion shim. With the pinion shim selected, install the pinion and set the preload. Note that the preload spec is different for new vs used bearings. Next install the carrier, set the backlash and set the side bearing preload as per the manual. With everything else in spec, the final check of the gear pattern should yield a satisfactory result. If the pattern is way off, one of the other steps wasn't done correctly.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Ford has revised the pinion bearing a couple times in the last year or so. You have to make sure you change the race rather than just use the old race with a new bearing. You'd be surprised how common it is for guys to skip changing out the races during rebuilds. The old style race is not compatible with the new style bearing. Ratech makes a pinion depth setting tool for $30 you can buy through Summit. Use an old pinion bearing for the initial setup. I used a flapper wheel on my air die grinder to hog out the inner bearing so that it slides on/off the pinion shaft relatively easily. Using the setting tool, an old pinion nut, and the setup bearing it's easy to get the right pinion shim. With the pinion shim selected, install the pinion and set the preload. Note that the preload spec is different for new vs used bearings. Next install the carrier, set the backlash and set the side bearing preload as per the manual. With everything else in spec, the final check of the gear pattern should yield a satisfactory result. If the pattern is way off, one of the other steps wasn't done correctly.

I switched all the races out when I did all my bearings, so they're matched. Also used the old bearing to slide on and off.

I'll have to check out that pinion depth tool though. Sounds useful

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Also, will the tool work with just any old
Set of dial calipers, or do you need a specific set? And how do I find checking distance?

 

[klaw]

Also, will the tool work with just any old
Set of dial calipers, or do you need a specific set? And how do I find checking distance?

You use the tail end of standard calipers (you're measuring depth through the slot in the tool to the bottom of the carrier bearing support). For aftermarket pinions, the checking distance is stamped on the pinion head. For Ford pinions that aren't marked, the checking distance is 4.42" minus the thickness of the pinion head.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

You use the tail end of standard calipers (you're measuring depth through the slot in the tool to the bottom of the carrier bearing support). For aftermarket pinions, the checking distance is stamped on the pinion head. For Ford pinions that aren't marked, the checking distance is 4.42" minus the thickness of the pinion head.

Sweeeeet! Thanks a ton!

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Update:

Got the tool in and started the process.

The math added up to a 0.0033 inches shim on the pinion.

Preload was about 38 inch pounds

Backlash was 0.0011 inches on slightly used gears.

Wear pattern was centered face/flank, and the drive was centered between the heel/toe with MAYBE a SLIGHT bias to the heel, but the coast side is favoring the toe.

If I post a pic of the pattern would someone with some experience mind giving me an opinion?

 

[05stroker]

38 in lb is to much for pinion preload. I learned the hard way. All the info you need is here.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78309&highlight=8.8

 

[Dubstep Shep]

38 in lb is to much for pinion preload. I learned the hard way. All the info you need is here.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78309&highlight=8.8

Really? Everything I read said that's correct for brand new bearings.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Really? Everything I read said that's correct for brand new bearings.

Ahhhh crap! I totally mistyped it. It's supposed to say 28, not 38!

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Ahhhh crap! I totally mistyped it. It's supposed to say 28, not 38!

It's ACTUALLY about 25 in lbs. I just re-checked it.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Ok, another update.

Found out one of my bearings was bad yesterday, so we swapped them all out and had to re-do pinion depth and all that.

Current pinion depth is 0.038 (little on the deep side, I know)

Preload is 26 inch pounds with new bearings

Backlash is 0.015 on used gears, which I was told the spec is 0.010-0.016 for used.

Here's the pattern:

Drive:

Coast:

That pattern looks good based on the little that I know. My understanding was that coast is more important than drive in used gears. How's that look to you? Suggestions on adjustments if any? Also, I was hoping to get this back in the car this afternoon/evening, so quick feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[klaw]

I like to favor the tighter side for backlash.