LCA's and or UCA's do we need them on a DD that has been lowered?

[Mach2burnout]

OP did you cut your bump stops. If not that is where your traction issue is. The steeda springs will only compress about an inch before hitting the stock bump stops and at that time all traction is gone.


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[5.0 Probie]

OP did you cut your bump stops. If not that is where your traction issue is. The steeda springs will only compress about an inch before hitting the stock bump stops and at that time all traction is gone.


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No I have not. I read in a few posts here and other sites, that that is a mistake to cut them.

So what is the real story on them? Cut or not to cut?

 

[5.0 Probie]

As has already been well established, control arms aren't needed but highly recommended for the wheel hop reduction and handling improvement.

Upper and lower or one of them? I am happy to do either or both. Just not interested in spending those kinds of funds if only one set it needed...

 

[RED09GT]

No I have not. I read in a few posts here and other sites, that that is a mistake to cut them.

So what is the real story on them? Cut or not to cut?

I have not felt any ill effects from cutting them whatsoever. I only cut the top nub off.

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[skwerl]

If you don't want to cut yours and permanently disfigure them, I can sell you mine cheap. I cut mine down to the first nub about a year ago. $25 shipped and you can try it out, and still have your stock ones to put back in if you don't like it.

 

[Mach2burnout]

No I have not. I read in a few posts here and other sites, that that is a mistake to cut them.

So what is the real story on them? Cut or not to cut?

I really don't see how you could have any ill effects from cutting them. You'll be glad you did

Just lay down and look under your car and see how much clearance you have left after lowering it and you'll make the right decision from there. I'll bet you have less than 1" clearance.

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[Whiskey11]

Wait, what? You originally said you didn't think the torque arm made enough of a difference to warrant installing it unless you had to due to SCCA class restrictions.

Never said it was superior, only that it was an option for those who hated dealing with the UCA. I do find it enjoyable to drive and the car puts down power very well compared to what it was stock but I've never driven my car with OE levels of %AS at my current ride height so I can't really, comfortably, attribute that to the TA vs just the added %AS.

One thing I will say is that if you are interested in a Torque Arm Setup from Cortex Racing, wait about 2 months to get it. They are switching from a Delrin chassis bushing to a poly one. Why the chassis bushing was Delrin was beyond me since Delrin has no give and the chassis mounting point needs to have some compliance in it, but I'm not the one with the engineering degree!

One of the biggest ill effects of cutting the bump stops is that they are progressive rate and they get stiffer towards the bottom of the bump stop. If you think they are "sudden" now when you hit them, cut them and hit them on a big bump, it will be A LOT more sudden.

OP: If corner carving is becoming your thing then we need to get you out to an autocross event. You will learn more in one day with an instructor at an autocross event about driving than you will in a life time of daily driving. It will teach you a lot about the physics behind the car you are driving and how it reacts.

You will never be able to build a "well handling" car where you can flat foot it mid corner if that car has any kind of power. TO do so requires a lot of compromised chassis setup. What you CAN do is get familiar with the grip circle and how it impacts your driving the car and how if you are turning at max grip of the tires how adding gas will result in one end sliding because there is no more grip to give.

 

[5.0 Probie]

W11, are you suggesting cutting the BS's is a good or bad idea? I am not following you on that one.

And.............

I am desperately trying to keep myself off the track. Because once I do I may never return to real life.

My heart and soul is in doing the one thing I cannot afford to do. Go faster than the other guy with as little damage as possible.

Let's just say... Stories are for the grand kids and when I was younger I was blessed with the ability to read air and feel how and what the vehicle needed to go faster than the rich guys could go with all the "Trick parts".

Now I am married, have a mortgage and lucky to quietly remember what could have been.

Not to be confused with any real skills, just natural talent and damn quick response times to what I saw or felt.

That blah blah all said... I have a firm belief in offensive driving. I can name three times in my life where hitting the throttle and articulating my vehicle around or through a situation that allowed us to get through scratch free... Too then pull over and help the less fortunate. And that is why I build/mod/tweak every ride we own. Find the edge, and always know where it is.

 

[torchred]

I have an 06 gt full bolt ons and gears thats lowered 1 inch in rear( 1 coil cut off stock)....i added kyb gtr rear shocks, che lca lowering brackets, and real nice tubular sperical rod end lca and my car hooks far WORSE than stock. I have like 320rwhp If That ......and i spin like john force through 2nd gear. Buy tires before you buy anything suspension related.

 

[Whiskey11]

W11, are you suggesting cutting the BS's is a good or bad idea? I am not following you on that one.

And.............

I am desperately trying to keep myself off the track. Because once I do I may never return to real life.

My heart and soul is in doing the one thing I cannot afford to do. Go faster than the other guy with as little damage as possible.

Let's just say... Stories are for the grand kids and when I was younger I was blessed with the ability to read air and feel how and what the vehicle needed to go faster than the rich guys could go with all the "Trick parts".

Now I am married, have a mortgage and lucky to quietly remember what could have been.

Not to be confused with any real skills, just natural talent and damn quick response times to what I saw or felt.

That blah blah all said... I have a firm belief in offensive driving. I can name three times in my life where hitting the throttle and articulating my vehicle around or through a situation that allowed us to get through scratch free... Too then pull over and help the less fortunate. And that is why I build/mod/tweak every ride we own. Find the edge, and always know where it is.

What I'm saying is there is a happy medium between cutting the stops and cutting them too much. If you are lopping it off to the bottom stump then you really should start looking at different bumpstops because you've cut everything off of the stock stops that makes them "progressive" and made them basically a solid piece of foam. When your frame makes contact with that bumpstop, there is no give and the effective spring rate of the rear suspension jumps to near infinity. That does some unpleasant things to the car. Just use some common sense and keep some of the progressive nature of the stops intact.

Really though if you are on your bumpstops all the time then you need stiffer springs for the ride height you are looking for.

Don't confuse autocross with track days. Autocross is sub 70 MPH and usually takes place in a parking lot around cones at an average speed in the upper 30's low 40's. Some regions are more or less fortunate and the average speed changes depending on the size of the course, the course layout and the lot the course is on. It is probably the safest form of motorsport and is a hell of a lot easier on your car than drag racing or any other form of motorsport. If your region is blessed with a large lot that it uses then the only risk of damage caused by outside elements (IE: not from poor maintenance of the car) will be from hitting cones and popping body panels loose if you hit them REALLY hard and hit them square. I've hit dozens and dozens of cones with my car and it leaves a light scuff that rubs off with a microfiber towel.

 

[Sky Render]

"Autocross is the most fun you can have in the front seat of your car."

 

[5.0 Probie]

Good info folks. TY.

W11. Thanks for the clarification. I will play with the stops in a bit. So far I am not feeling the "Thud" II would think I would if I was hitting them, but I understand how that could be part of the cause to my lack of traction.

It is pretty dang easy to do a 360 in the middle of a U-Turn. Not that I would do that on purpose of course (As I reached over and turned off traction control without my wife noticing) MUHahahahahaaaaaaaaa

And tires you say torchred. I am looking at the Michelin pilots as we speak =]

 

[RED09GT]

Remember that they are progressive so it doesn't truly feel like a thud from a straight line-especially since the tires start spinning at the same time.

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[5.0 Probie]

Remember that they are progressive so it doesn't truly feel like a thud from a straight line-especially since the tires start spinning at the same time.

awesome autocorrect malfunctions brought to you by tapatalk

Ah ha! Did not think of that. I am debating on taking yup the $25 offer above and doing some testing or just whack 1" off mine...

So far the car feels/handles more like I would have liked it to be from the factory. Little rougher ride than I expected, so shocks will be in order at some point.

It is actually rather amazing how just 1" in drop completely changes the look of the car. Wife is very happy and is already talking about what to do to it next quarter... lol

 

[Sharad]

No I have not. I read in a few posts here and other sites, that that is a mistake to cut them.

So what is the real story on them? Cut or not to cut?

Cut em. I had Steeda Sports on my '06 and had to cut the bump stops because it was hitting them hard. Then I put UPR/Eibach Pro on my 2011 and REALLY had to cut em! (down to the last big section)

Upper and lower or one of them? I am happy to do either or both. Just not interested in spending those kinds of funds if only one set it needed...

Neither is needed, but I recommend doing the lowers first, because they're quick and easy to get to. Then later when you save up a little more money and/or you're a little more mechanically motivated, you can tackle the upper.

 

[Whiskey11]

Cut em. I had Steeda Sports on my '06 and had to cut the bump stops because it was hitting them hard. Then I put UPR/Eibach Pro on my 2011 and REALLY had to cut em! (down to the last big section)




Neither is needed, but I recommend doing the lowers first, because they're quick and easy to get to. Then later when you save up a little more money and/or you're a little more mechanically motivated, you can tackle the upper.

Which is funny because I recommend doing it the exact opposite. A.) you get the PITA one out of the way right away and B.) using adjustable LCA's to tune pinion angle is a PITA if you don't pay attention to how you do it. The larger the rear drop the more and more I recommend, heavily, that you address the pinion angle issue through the UCA. The UCA's primary job is to control wheel hop, create the rear IC and control the pinion angle sweep The wheel hop is one of the biggest reasons to do the UCA first as that is the primary source of wheel hop.

 

[Mach2burnout]

Heres how I cut mine. I coated the end of them with plasti-dip and notice it is almost all still there. This is after 12 or so auto x events and 1 track day.




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[Sharad]

Which is funny because I recommend doing it the exact opposite. A.) you get the PITA one out of the way right away and B.) using adjustable LCA's to tune pinion angle is a PITA if you don't pay attention to how you do it. The larger the rear drop the more and more I recommend, heavily, that you address the pinion angle issue through the UCA. The UCA's primary job is to control wheel hop, create the rear IC and control the pinion angle sweep The wheel hop is one of the biggest reasons to do the UCA first as that is the primary source of wheel hop.

OP's on Steeda Sports. That's barely any drop. Steeda installed Steeda Sport springs on my former car for an article and didn't touch the control arms. Obviously they weren't worried about the pinion angle.

I never recommend adjusting pinion angle through the LCAs. Then you'd be changing wheelbase, and that's just not desirable.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I'm on steeda sports and they dropped mine over an inch all around. About 1 1/4"


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[Whiskey11]

OP's on Steeda Sports. That's barely any drop. Steeda installed Steeda Sport springs on my former car for an article and didn't touch the control arms. Obviously they weren't worried about the pinion angle.

I never recommend adjusting pinion angle through the LCAs. Then you'd be changing wheelbase, and that's just not desirable.

Steeda also told me that -1.7* of camber was all that the S197 chassis would get... and that is obviously wrong...

All I'm really saying is that if you are going to start replacing control arms, regardless of the reason behind it, the UCA is the one to start because you can do "everything" with that control arm you could do with the LCA's without the negatives of adjustable LCA's. You can tune %AS if you have a mount that allows it (BMR and Steeda), you fix the wheel hop issue entirely by removing the cause of the problem (the UCA chassis bushing with two massive voids in the fore/aft portion of the bushing) and you do that without dicking with roll steer like with the LCA's.

The pinion angle change is a bonus that doesn't hurt to do. Running too much lower than what Steeda Sports offer is a good way to start placing extra load on the pinion bearing even if you aren't getting any vibration at speed from the change in pinion angle.