Dyno questions

[black N boosted]

I recently just got my car retuned by another tuner which I dynoed lower then previously, since the last tune I switched to 4.10 gears from 3.55 swapped to 60lb injectors from 39lb and put in delete plates.... Car made 484 and previous tune I made 510... I'm not worried about the numbers as much as the car feels a bit sluggish when I go to get on it... Attached is my dyno sheet so you can take a look and tell me what u think.. Thanks I advance

 

[BruceH]

A car feeling sluggish can be something as simple as the commanded torque table in drive by wire being set not as aggressive.

Some tuners will command more torque with less pedal to give you the feeling of more power. It's just a trick and an unsafe one at that. Maybe this is what you are experiencing.

 

[black N boosted]

A car feeling sluggish can be something as simple as the commanded torque table in drive by wire being set not as aggressive.

Some tuners will command more torque with less pedal to give you the feeling of more power. It's just a trick and an unsafe one at that. Maybe this is what you are experiencing.

Thanks for the insight, was hoping for u to comment.... It's been raining here the past few days so once it dries up Im gonna take it out and romp on her a bit to see how it is overal

 

[travelers]

You also went from 39# injectors to 60#. that's a big jump. any reason for going 60# instead of 47#

 

[black N boosted]

You also went from 39# injectors to 60#. that's a big jump. any reason for going 60# instead of 47#

I bought them a couple yrs ago and never used them, was going to build the motor but used the funds to buy a house instead... Figured I was getting a retune for the delete plates and gears so I figured I'd install them also

 

[Wild White Pony]

A little more spark on the bottom of the table, cause delete plates are stealing your low end. Mines a turd out of the hole without CMP and phasers locked. And I did the more torque/driver demand, like said don't do it it can make for surprises when trying to pass someone or changing lanes and adding throttle.

 

[black N boosted]

So pretty much swapping to 60lb and also delete plates hurt me rather then helping me

 

[Wild White Pony]

Has nothing to do with your injectors, you need bigger ones at 510rwhp than the 39lbs for sure, the delete plates have an effect on that dyno chart low end but you should of picked up a little up top. Unfortunately this is a common issue with centri blowers or NA cars when you delete these plates. If you leave the plates in keeping that lower end power and have centri boost, you can also find threads about charge motion plates coming apart and rivets being consumed by the engine so most people with lots of boost delete and live with it. A Smaller pulley and crank overdrive will help get out on the bottom by building boost quicker. You now have 4:10 gears, take it to the track and see real world results, I know adding 4:10 gears to mine made a big difference at the track, at least with my auto.

 

[black N boosted]

Has nothing to do with your injectors, you need bigger ones at 510rwhp than the 39lbs for sure, the delete plates have an effect on that dyno chart low end but you should of picked up a little up top. Unfortunately this is a common issue with centri blowers or NA cars when you delete these plates. If you leave the plates in keeping that lower end power and have centri boost, you can also find threads about charge motion plates coming apart and rivets being consumed by the engine so most people with lots of boost delete and live with it. A Smaller pulley and crank overdrive will help get out on the bottom by building boost quicker. You now have 4:10 gears, take it to the track and see real world results, I know adding 4:10 gears to mine made a big difference at the track, at least with my auto.

Thanks for the insight, I'm trying to go to the track within the next 2 weeks, just gotta get a new set of dr cuz my last set ware toast.... I swapped pulleys awhile back and I'm either running the 3.33 or the 3.25 I forget...I'm thinking of going with a 10% overdrive though I dynoed with the stock pulley and an evolution tune and made 480 swapped pulleys and gt500 fuel system and Jim tune and made 510 @ 14lb of boost now I made 484 at 12lbs

 

[BruceH]

A little more spark on the bottom of the table, cause delete plates are stealing your low end. Mines a turd out of the hole without CMP and phasers locked. And I did the more torque/driver demand, like said don't do it it can make for surprises when trying to pass someone or changing lanes and adding throttle.

A few months ago I put a stock intake manifold on my can and kept the cmcv active. The result is more bottom end and an increase of 2mpg on my normal work route. I haven't done any logging to see what, if any difference it's made on total airflow at higher rpms.

I've really started to think that deletes are ranking right up there with throttle body spacers for usefulness. It's something that we just do because we do it. Has anyone ever done actual testing to see what, if any advantage comes from deletes? Do they really block enough air to matter at wot or does the motor still have access to all the air it can consume?

I'm talking about na because a forced induction setup just isn't going to see much restriction since it's being force fed.

 

[black N boosted]

A few months ago I put a stock intake manifold on my can and kept the cmcv active. The result is more bottom end and an increase of 2mpg on my normal work route. I haven't done any logging to see what, if any difference it's made on total airflow at higher rpms.

I've really started to think that deletes are ranking right up there with throttle body spacers for usefulness. It's something that we just do because we do it. Has anyone ever done actual testing to see what, if any advantage comes from deletes? Do they really block enough air to matter at wot or does the motor still have access to all the air it can consume?

I'm talking about na because a forced induction setup just isn't going to see much restriction since it's being force fed.

Gotcha, one reason I went with the delete plates also because I kept getting the same 2 codes under wot- but I agree with u on the whole forced induction and being forced fed through

 

[Wild White Pony]

A few months ago I put a stock intake manifold on my can and kept the cmcv active. The result is more bottom end and an increase of 2mpg on my normal work route. I haven't done any logging to see what, if any difference it's made on total airflow at higher rpms.

I've really started to think that deletes are ranking right up there with throttle body spacers for usefulness. It's something that we just do because we do it. Has anyone ever done actual testing to see what, if any advantage comes from deletes? Do they really block enough air to matter at wot or does the motor still have access to all the air it can consume?

I'm talking about na because a forced induction setup just isn't going to see much restriction since it's being force fed.

I think your findings are pretty accurate with regards to deletes. I'm approaching 100 pulls now with my car on the dyno with all the mods over the years and one that stood out was the installation of the frpp intake. Since it deletes the charge motion runners it has the same results as loss on the lower end and mpg.
From what I have heard most of the tuners add a ton of spark on the bottom end to help this sluggishness and get some mpg.
My tuner has a 700rwhp TT3v and left the intake and TB stock since over the years of tuning many 3v's with and without deletes he thinks it's also worthless as spacer plates, BBK TB, and any aftermarket COP. I just wonder if it's a good idea to leave them in with lots of boost since a few people here have had issues with them coming apart in boosted setups.

 

[black N boosted]

A few months ago I put a stock intake manifold on my can and kept the cmcv active. The result is more bottom end and an increase of 2mpg on my normal work route. I haven't done any logging to see what, if any difference it's made on total airflow at higher rpms.

I've really started to think that deletes are ranking right up there with throttle body spacers for usefulness. It's something that we just do because we do it. Has anyone ever done actual testing to see what, if any advantage comes from deletes? Do they really block enough air to matter at wot or does the motor still have access to all the air it can consume?

I'm talking about na because a forced induction setup just isn't going to see much restriction since it's being force fed.

Going to do some data logging later on today, car still doesn't feel right... On first start up of the day I let car warm up for 10 mins before driving- initial first 5-10 mins of driving after the car stutters before it starts to move... Trying to figure out what parameters to data log?? Hoping Bruce can chime in with some insight... Thanks ahead of time

 

[BruceH]

Going to do some data logging later on today, car still doesn't feel right... On first start up of the day I let car warm up for 10 mins before driving- initial first 5-10 mins of driving after the car stutters before it starts to move... Trying to figure out what parameters to data log?? Hoping Bruce can chime in with some insight... Thanks ahead of time

Like I said in the pm it sounds to me like the cold start tables are fubar. Tuning wot is fairly easy but tuning driveability takes a bit more thought. Some quality time with your tuner should solve the issue provided there isn't a mechanical issue.