Intercooler Pump Locations?

[hamish]

When is yours going to be ready?

 

[Department Of Boost]

When is yours going to be ready?

Not soon enough.

This fall.

 

[hamish]

I KNOW!!!!
That's why I'm doing this shit.
Hurry

 

[Pentalab]

I believe VMP has tried several different configs, with varying results.

Mine goes.... IC -degas - pump - HE...back to IC. Pump is located aprx midway between output (bottom) of de-gas and bottom of HE.

Coolant enters the bottom right hand corner of the HE..and exits the top left corner of the HE.

But I only have a Bosch pump, aprx 4 gpm.

Just a minor added note here, but the de-gas on my 2010 Roush M90 small blower setup is aprx double the size of the de-gas used on the 05-09 roush m90 setups. My 2010 de-gas is aprx 1 us gallon..and coolant enters the top ( side) ...and exits at the tapered bottom. I had it (and the eng rad) both vac filled. I see some of the 07-12 GT-500 folks were replacing their oem de-gas containers with the 10+ roush bigger de-gas. The bigger de-gas is on roush's site. But tons of aftermarket de-gas jugs available.

Last time I saw a 13/14 GT-500, I noticed the de-gas was a tiny little thing. Baffles me why ford would route coolant through the top of the HE..and exit through the bottom of the HE. After all, heat rises, but with a 8 gpm pump, it may well be a moot point. Where are folks with the bigger IC pumps seeing the aeration, in the de-gas ?

The usual deal is when using the 13/14 GT-500 pump, the de-gas looks like a jaccuzi inside.

 

[Wes06]

heat rising in a tiny tank like the 07 GT500 tank is a moot point with how fast it should be flowing

 

[hamish]

I have found 2 spots I am considering now.

Pump fits infront of the ECU and draws from the usual battery area located degas, now from here it either pumps straight into the IC inlet or I go down to the driver side bottom of He, that I haven't decided on yet.

I'm leaning towards the IC inlet as this will more than likely be the cooldest the water will be.

If the heat gain by the water from degas is insignificant I could run from the HE into the degas and then into the the pump then through the IC then into the HE in series.

For this to happen I need to raise the ECU a few inches to alow for the hose to run underneath it.
Or just relocate the ECU and start a wire tuck project in anticipation of finishing around the time DOB gets there HE and Degas kits into production.

Location 2 is down low on the drivers side beside the HE, I would have to find or fab up a degas to fit on the drivers side area by the Anti lock brake module.

I am trying to maintiain "best practices" as close as I can, but in the end I may just fab it up for simplicity.
I am really trying not to choose convienience as I need every possibility of each *F I can get in my favour.


So get the coldest water into the IC, mount harware to ensure smooth flow and manufacturers recommendations to prolong life of the equipment.

Who makes a drivers side degas? I see whipple used to make one anyone else know who makes them?

 

[Department Of Boost]

If you run any of the fan shroud located degas tanks their outlets are almost straight above a pump mounted on the DS just to the outside of the frame rail. This is how I packaged my stuff.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

FWIW - The pumping process induces heat into your medium regardless of the medium type or closed loop process. Compression of the medium must occur for a differential pressure to be present which causes flow in a closed loop system. The byproduct of this work as with any work is heat. Therefore heat will be induced into an already cooled medium just prior to it entering the I.C. The efficiency of the H.E. is now compromised. In theory the best place for a pump is between the return tank and the H.E. source. This allows the H.E. not only to remove the heat from the return medium but also remove heat induced from the pumping process. The triple pass I received placed the HE pump down low on the drivers side. The feed from there to the bottom of the H.E. is only about 8-16 inches as I recall. VMP relocated the pump to take it out of the airflow path of the both the HE and the radiator. You could reference their location and bracket they send with the package which may be of assistance to your build. As for driver's side tank, my Roush system came with a driver's side degas tank. It holds I believe about 1/2 gallon. The majority of the coolant (mixed it 60/40 water to coolant since I street drive it even in the winter) to optimize heat transfer over standard 50/50 mixes. That said the most efficiency would be running pure DI water in your system as long as you remember to not leave it in the vehicle in sub freezing temps. Coolant, aka antifreeze, aka glycol, aka dowtherm, aka dowfrost is only present to reduce freezing temps of the water. It otherwise served as an insulator. Hope you get it all ironed out.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Compression of the medium

Water doesn't compress.

 

[Wes06]

I get what hes saying, putting it under pressure should increase its temp.

But I dont see the pressure induced via the pump being noticable compared to the heat it soaks in via the IC

 

[hamish]

If you run any of the fan shroud located degas tanks their outlets are almost straight above a pump mounted on the DS just to the outside of the frame rail. This is how I packaged my stuff.

With the Saleen unit it's pretty tight with the alternator spun around .
But I have time to move stuff around just to see what can go where.

So essentially the factory ford Gt500 system routes in that manner, degas at the rad shroud feeding a pump below which from what I can tell feeds the HE from the top.

Everything is a possibility, but I wanb to get the most possible out of the system. Fullboogie posted an older thread from tmcolegr where he was essentially running the same set up and overspinning the saleen way past it's peak efficiency.

Lito and I ended up dropping a few pulley sizes to drop blower speed and lower boost to create a drivable safe pump gas tune.
It still gets hotter than I want.
So every * counts here. I am hoping to drop 20*AIT going from the bosch pump, .50" saleen IC fittings, I had a AFCO dual pass as the only upgrade in the system prior to now.

So new EMP pump, IC machined for 1.25" hose, awaiting DOB HE and Degas to be complete.

But I do have a miriad of parts and shit I picked up. SO this big ass GT500 HE, looks like a single pass 3 row unit can be fitted for 1.25" hose.

I have a few different Degas tanks lying around.

Don't know if 20* is possible as the IC is soooo tiny.

But even 5* across the board and a quicker recovery time would make me happy.

So that's it, I need to know what is the most efficient routing.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I just helped a Formula Drift team out with their IAT and belt woes. The IC was modded from 5/8" to 1" fittings and the hoses went from 3/4" to 1". It went from 5gpm to 13gpm. IAT's came down from 220deg to 145deg.

You will see your goals met.

 

[hamish]

FWIW - The pumping process induces heat into your medium regardless of the medium type or closed loop process. Compression of the medium must occur for a differential pressure to be present which causes flow in a closed loop system. The byproduct of this work as with any work is heat. Therefore heat will be induced into an already cooled medium just prior to it entering the I.C. The efficiency of the H.E. is now compromised. In theory the best place for a pump is between the return tank and the H.E. source. This allows the H.E. not only to remove the heat from the return medium but also remove heat induced from the pumping process. The triple pass I received placed the HE pump down low on the drivers side. The feed from there to the bottom of the H.E. is only about 8-16 inches as I recall. VMP relocated the pump to take it out of the airflow path of the both the HE and the radiator. You could reference their location and bracket they send with the package which may be of assistance to your build. As for driver's side tank, my Roush system came with a driver's side degas tank. It holds I believe about 1/2 gallon. The majority of the coolant (mixed it 60/40 water to coolant since I street drive it even in the winter) to optimize heat transfer over standard 50/50 mixes. That said the most efficiency would be running pure DI water in your system as long as you remember to not leave it in the vehicle in sub freezing temps. Coolant, aka antifreeze, aka glycol, aka dowtherm, aka dowfrost is only present to reduce freezing temps of the water. It otherwise served as an insulator. Hope you get it all ironed out.

What pump was VMP relocating? This EMP pump is all gangly and has quite specific mounting requirements.
I only run water and some water wetter in the IC circuit and drain it before storage, winterize with glycol water mix.

Last summer back to back 30%glycol70% water and water+ water wetter appeared to net me a couple degrees in AIT.
Once again every * counts with this setup.

 

[hamish]

I just helped a Formula Drift team out with their IAT and belt woes. The IC was modded from 5/8" to 1" fittings and the hoses went from 3/4" to 1". It went from 5gpm to 13gpm. IAT's came down from 220deg to 145deg.

You will see your goals met.

I don't know man.
This Intercooler is like 3 - 4 times smaller than your setups.
I am setting my expectations low.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I don't know man.
This Intercooler is like 3 - 4 times smaller than your setups.
I am setting my expectations low.

You'll be fine.

You won't have shockingly low IAT's like our new stuff has, but you will be better off than everyone else.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

What pump was VMP relocating? This EMP pump is all gangly and has quite specific mounting requirements.
I only run water and some water wetter in the IC circuit and drain it before storage, winterize with glycol water mix.

Last summer back to back 30%glycol70% water and water+ water wetter appeared to net me a couple degrees in AIT.
Once again every * counts with this setup.

The Roush pump which I am not sure of the volume. I was concerned with needing to up the flow for the Triple pass but VMP told me I would be fine being I am keeping boost below 10.5psi. Pretty certain that pump is the same one sued in the 07-12 GT500. I am not familiar with the EMP pump size.

Is this the one you are trying to use in your application? Looks really beefy! Whats the flow rate? Up to a point more water movement means more heat removal.

I will try to find the mount photo for the triple pass. I can see it mounted but I am drawing a blank at the moment exactly how the bracket was mounted to the car. Worked out nicely though and depending on size you could make a beefier version of it because the pump on mine weighs nothing and that EMP assuming it is the one I found and pasted likely has some weight to it in compare.

 

[hamish]

Yeah thats the beast

 

[redfirepearlgt]

<--------------- Front of car

Found this side view photo that may give you some ideas for other mounting options. This is VMP's relocation bracket idea for the stock pump. The bracket is a "Z" bracket if you will. Mounts to the bumper mount on the driver side. The pump then mounts to that. AS you can see this application uses the standard pump made by Bosch that I use. Your EMP is larger in diamater but shorter it appears in height. This could still work for you but you would likely need to upscale on material size and refabricate slightly for your mount options. A lot may depend on clearance behind the bumper cover. Hope this if anything stimulates thought.

Good luck on the project.

 

[v6tungsten]

With the Saleen unit it's pretty tight with the alternator spun around .
But I have time to move stuff around just to see what can go where.

So essentially the factory ford Gt500 system routes in that manner, degas at the rad shroud feeding a pump below which from what I can tell feeds the HE from the top.

Everything is a possibility, but I wanb to get the most possible out of the system. Fullboogie posted an older thread from tmcolegr where he was essentially running the same set up and overspinning the saleen way past it's peak efficiency.

Lito and I ended up dropping a few pulley sizes to drop blower speed and lower boost to create a drivable safe pump gas tune.
It still gets hotter than I want.
So every * counts here. I am hoping to drop 20*AIT going from the bosch pump, .50" saleen IC fittings, I had a AFCO dual pass as the only upgrade in the system prior to now.

So new EMP pump, IC machined for 1.25" hose, awaiting DOB HE and Degas to be complete.

But I do have a miriad of parts and shit I picked up. SO this big ass GT500 HE, looks like a single pass 3 row unit can be fitted for 1.25" hose.

I have a few different Degas tanks lying around.

Don't know if 20* is possible as the IC is soooo tiny.

But even 5* across the board and a quicker recovery time would make me happy.

So that's it, I need to know what is the most efficient routing.

did you every find/test fit other fitting for the saleen? The ones you PM m e still had .40" internal passage?

 

[Pentalab]

The Roush pump is the same Bosch pump (4 gpm under load with the usual small hoses and restrictions, draws 4A) as used in the 07-12 GT-500 cars. In theory, a small IC will work, provided you increase the flow rate through it, to increase heat extraction. (100% distilled water + water wetter will also increase heat extraction inside the IC). But the extracted heat has to then be transferred to the air.... via the HE. Unless the HE is bigger, a larger pump might not buy you much, if any. But that 13/14 GT-500 HE is huge, at 3.125" thick...and then you can really take advantage of the higher flow rate pump. Hood vents may well enhance airflow through the myriad of rads a bit. So would leaving the eng fan on high speed. (put defrost on, set temp control to anywhere you want, cabin fan to lowest setting, and the eng fan will default to high speed. Or put AC on, with air coming out anywhere, same deal, eng fan defaults to high speed).

I assume you are using Chevron 94 (no ethanol in it) being in Vancouver. 8 of us here across the pond in Victoria have had clogged fuel pump socks...and we all use chev 94. Mine was the latest fiasco. One day the car would not go into boost, it would gag, with boost gauge just a hair to the left of zero. My FPDC was sky high, like 96%, just prior to the sock issue. Installed the 10 gauge wire mod..and it made zero difference...then got worse, like 98%. 2 weeks later it gagged. Cleaned the sock out, and FPDC dropped to 80% @ 6 krpm. ( 36% @ idle). You should see the crap floating about the bottom of the tank. I put in a call to the plant manager at their refinery in Burnaby.