Anyone running Koni adjustable sport shocks?

[GRAYPNY]

I would like to know what springs you have.

 

[SD07GT]

Whats wrong with your Vogtlands ? also you as you know your Techno watts link has no roll adjustment so different spring rates and ride height's will make a difference in your cars handling if that has anything to do on whats going on ?

 

[GRAYPNY]

Well now I think that the BMR non-adjustable lower control arms are binding. They are torqued correctly and have poly bushings. When I get in the car they creak and they are lubed with poly bushing grease. Is the offset correct on the LCA pictured here? Just wondering if I put them on the wrong sides.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3347021947_7699656915_b.jpg

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

+1 for Koni Yellow Sport Adjustable Shocks and Struts with Vogtland Springs and BMR non-adjustable LCAs. No noise. Suspension feels great - very predictable. Not sure what's causing your issue though.

 

[SD07GT]

Well now I think that the BMR non-adjustable lower control arms are binding. They are torqued correctly and have poly bushings. When I get in the car they creak and they are lubed with poly bushing grease. Is the offset correct on the LCA pictured here? Just wondering if I put them on the wrong sides.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3347021947_7699656915_b.jpg

The thinner side goes on the outside and the thicker goes on the inside , buy the way the picture looks you have them installed wrong !

You can go to Steeda website and click under support on the tool bar at the top and they have PDF files on installation directions you can check out the directions there under the billet LCA and see for your self also .

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Here's the link to the BMR LCA instructions (.pdf file) - good luck.

 

[GRAYPNY]

It says that the offset goes to the center of the car which is how mine are? When I put them on I looked at the oem lca's and tried to match them up the same. Any other ideas?
http://www.steeda.com/directions/555-4422_steel_lower_control_s197.pdf

 

[SD07GT]

It says that the offset goes to the center of the car which is how mine are? When I put them on I looked at the oem lca's and tried to match them up the same. Any other ideas?
http://www.steeda.com/directions/555-4422_steel_lower_control_s197.pdf

your wright ! I was looking at it wrong ...the only thing I can say it is possible you have a cracked or split busing inside?

 

[Pony DNA]

I would like to know what springs you have.

Hi GRAYPNY,

I'm running Hypercoil 325lb/in linear rate springs in front and 250lb/in linear rate springs out back.

Your LCA's look like they are oriented the right way. The problem I've found with all of the LCA's with poly/poly bushings is that they are always in a slight state of bind due to the way the brackets are aligned on the chassis and axle. For best results and longest bushing life poly bushings should only be used in a situation where the misalignment between the pivot points is minimal and of short duration which is not the case with the S197 chassis. This is why so may people are having or will soon have problems with their poly/poly bushed LCA's. The UCA is used in a purely aligned mode and unless you have a power adder should not be a problem for some time.

The ONLY way to resolve the bushing misalignment issues with a reliable minimal noise solution is to use GT500 LCA's OR an adjustable LCA terminated with combo poly/rod-end or rod-end/rod-ends. While the GT500 LCA's work very well for N/A cars I prefer the combo poly/rod-end configuration. The reasons are two fold, the poly bushings on the chassis side hold the LCA's lined up and keep the rod-ends from making so much noise as they hit and rub at the rod-end's alignment limits and the poly bushings help keep road noise to a minimum though there is more NVH with even a single rod-end installed.

I've tried it both ways but with the poly bushings on the chassis side and the rod-ends on the axle side I had the lowest noise and best articulation and least amount of preload on the poly bushings which increases the replacement intervals. An all rod-end LCA would be superior for a race car or application where rod-end noise and road noises are not an issue and maintenance is high enough to keep them in good shape.

HTH!

 

[GRAYPNY]

Thanks for input Pony DNA. I agree with the poly/poly binding issues and I'm going to give these a shot from our newest vendor, UMI.

 

[shatter]

That type of rod end is going to be noisy. There seem to be plenty of people running aftermarket LCA without this issue, I don't know that this is going to be an acceptable long term solution. Why don't you contact the manufacturer of your LCAs and speak to them before throwing more cash at the problem?

 

[Pony DNA]

Deleted

 

[Pony DNA]

That type of rod end is going to be noisy. There seem to be plenty of people running aftermarket LCA without this issue, I don't know that this is going to be an acceptable long term solution. Why don't you contact the manufacturer of your LCAs and speak to them before throwing more cash at the problem?

Hi Shatter,

The causes for the problem are exactly as posted and are not going to go away without a redesign or at the very least a reposition and possibly relocation of the LCA pivot points on the chassis and axle. The fix is fairly easy and can be retrofitted to most any adjustable LCA for the S197 chassis with some effort on the part of the owners of the problem LCA's (all of us). There is also the Currie Johnnie joint which offers both excellent isolation and good articulation similar to a rod-end. The Currie Johnnie Joints are not cheap though but they offer a unique solution to the problem and a solution that does not come at the expense of compromising low compliance for better NVH.

Mechanical rod-end noise should not be a problem for a reasonable time. The UMI LCA's pictured are spec'd to use a QA1 Teflon lined spherical bearing. While Aurora rod-ends are easily comparable in quality the only significantly better rod-ends I know of are the mil-spec Aurora rod-ends.

Cheers!

 

[Sam Strano]

I hope that if you decide on the UMI arms that you'd get them from me--since I've been trying to help.

As for the binding, Rich tells me the car creaks when he gets in and out which is classic noise from bushing stiction. Rod-ends aren't super expensive, if you have one that makes noise with miles, it's just a matter of unscrewing it and replacing it. Further, it was mentioned these rod-ends do have teflon lined races, which means they are not metal on metal, but lined and self lubricating. You can make a trick bushing that have a ball and say delrin liners, but it's functionally the same thing, and as the liner wears it too will make noise. And the type that use urethane are a joke, the ball doesn't want to rotate smoothly in urethane anymore than a urethane bushing wants to move smoothly on any other surface. They'd need a lot of lube, and frankly they are more gimmick than anything.

 

[Pony DNA]

Thanks for input Pony DNA. I agree with the poly/poly binding issues and I'm going to give these a shot from our newest vendor, UMI.

Hi GRAYPNY,

Those puppies ought to do the trick. Try to buy them from an s197forum.com supporting vendor if possible as they help us by supporting this site. Just realize that any rod-end will need occasional replacement as they wear. There are dust boots for rod-ends out there but I'm not sure they are worth the trouble.

HTH!

 

[Pony DNA]

I hope that if you decide on the UMI arms that you'd get them from me--since I've been trying to help.

As for the binding, Rich tells me the car creaks when he gets in and out which is classic noise from bushing stiction. Rod-ends aren't super expensive, if you have one that makes noise with miles, it's just a matter of unscrewing it and replacing it. Further, it was mentioned these rod-ends do have teflon lined races, which means they are not metal on metal, but lined and self lubricating. You can make a trick bushing that have a ball and say delrin liners, but it's functionally the same thing, and as the liner wears it too will make noise. And the type that use urethane are a joke, the ball doesn't want to rotate smoothly in urethane anymore than a urethane bushing wants to move smoothly on any other surface. They'd need a lot of lube, and frankly they are more gimmick than anything.

Hi Sam,

Have you ever used a Currie Johnnie Joint? The off road folks have been using them for years and swear by them.

Cheers!

 

[SD07GT]

Hi Sam,

Have you ever used a Currie Johnnie Joint? The off road folks have been using them for years and swear by them.

Cheers!

Also the New J@M hot parts Extreme joint is a take off of the Currie Johnnie Joint !

Also check out the new Spohn DEL Sphere joints !

 

[Pony DNA]

Also the New J@M hot parts Extreme joint is a take off of the Currie Johnnie Joint !

Also check out the new Spohn DEL Sphere joints !

Hey SD07GT,

I like the Spohn Delrin bushed spherical but my experience with Delrin is that it cold flows and does not offer much NVH isolation. It should work well in this design but I would not expect much NVH isolation when compared to a poly material. I used to use the stuff for bushings on Datsun B510 and 240Z pivots and Porsche and BMW anti-roll bars and suspension pivots. It is pretty durable stuff and can last a long time if kept clean, I used to make the bushings grease-able from the center by drilling holes so the grease would push out the dirt and grit.

Cheers!

 

[SD07GT]

Hey SD07GT,

I like the Spohn Delrin bushed spherical but my experience with Delrin is that it cold flows and does not offer much NVH isolation. It should work well in this design but I would not expect much NVH isolation when compared to a poly material. I used to use the stuff for bushings on Datsun B510 and 240Z pivots and Porsche and BMW anti-roll bars and suspension pivots. It is pretty durable stuff and can last a long time if kept clean, I used to make the bushings grease-able from the center by drilling holes so the grease would push out the dirt and grit.

Cheers!

In your opinion do you think the Steeda UCA with the three piece poly bushing has enough rotational twist to it to stop the binding from happening ? I know you use that piece with the Steeda UCA mount

I'm still using the OEM uca @ mount .... Thats about the only Suspension piece I have not changed and I was looking to play with the pinion angle and possible the I/C with the Steeda UCA bracket .

Thanks for the invite also to the races in San Diego , but unfortunately I was looking for work in another state at that time due to cut backs at work !

 

[Sam Strano]

Binding on the UCA is not nearly the issue it is on the LCA's because of the location. The UCA is centrally mounted vs. way outboard (you have far more rotational movement out there). But there would still be some inherent stickiness in any poly-bushed arm. If you want to make sure you have none then something like a Steeda Comp conversion or a UMI rod-ended arm and UCA mount is what you'd be after.