I want better handling

[13726548]

My buddies cars consist of front wheel drive Hondas, BMWs, and Miatas. I know I can murder their cars in a drag race, and I normally have no trouble keeping up with them in the turns, but my friend with a Acura RSX will leave me behind.
What can I do to fix this? I get occasionally get invited to Honda meets and I don't want to be the slow guy with the Mustang anymore.

So far I have the K springs, stock shocks, and the MM adjustable panhard bar.
I guess I can start by buying coil overs and swaybars and whatnot but I'd like to know if there are folks who have firsthand experience with certain parts/brands.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

First off, and PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but read through a few of the "how do I get faster" threads, and you'll see a common denominator... learn how to drive. Get out to an event and get an instructor in the car with you, listen to them, do your best to do what they tell you to do, and I guarantee that you'll be faster at the end of the weekend than you will be with ANY particular bolt-on part.

 

[obxdude018]

First off, and PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but read through a few of the "how do I get faster" threads, and you'll see a common denominator... learn how to drive. Get out to an event and get an instructor in the car with you, listen to them, do your best to do what they tell you to do, and I guarantee that you'll be faster at the end of the weekend than you will be with ANY particular bolt-on part.

Amen to that, if you don't have track experience then get it, all those suspension mods won't really help if you don't know how to drive, look into NASA racing, been to some of their events and its so awesome to see these cars, especially when they bring out the american iron series.

 

[13726548]

OK, so this opens a new set of questions. In order to take these driving classes, do I need to be a part of a club? Or is it something I can just show up to and learn as long as there are instructors available?

 

[JesseW.]

the cheapest way to get some good experience is to find your local autocross (scca or whatever), give them 30-40 dollars of your money, and get out there. and the only thing you have to worry about hitting is cones. but if you are embarassed by being the slow guy in a group of honda's, just wait until you are the slow guy in a group of miata's...

 

[13726548]

I actually had no trouble keeping up with my friend's stock first gen Miata. And he regularly goes to autox events.

 

[JesseW.]

I actually had no trouble keeping up with my friend's stock first gen Miata. And he regularly goes to autox events.

lol, he'll be days ahead of you at autocross unless he's a bad driver. you are keeping up with him on the street because of his lack of power.

if you do sways, get some shocks while you are at it. sways, springs, stock shocks gave me some funky handling characteristics at high speed... call sam strano. he'll set you straight if you just want to throw money at it.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I don't know what area you're in, but I would investigate NASA (nasaproracing.com), and check out the schedule for your area. REAL race tracks, with all the trimmings, and a highly organized, focused educational program designed to make YOU the best driver you can be... Investigate the HPDE program (High Performance Driver's Education), and after a weekend or two, you will be startled at how much better of a driver you've become, both on the track and on the street. It's more than just driving technique, they'll teach you the mental and procedural approaches that will let you excel. Things like looking and planning ahead (at 100+MPH!), feeling the chassis dynamics of the car you're driving, peripheral vision usage, and a bunch more.

 

[fordrocks]

I will try my first auto x test session in Sebring this may through these folks, track guys. I have been told the same thing, quit throwing parts at my car and learn it first and build on that.
http://www.trackguys.com/

 

[irishpwr46]

first thing you wanna do is learn the weak points in your car. like everyone said, you need to learn how to drive the car to its limit before you can push that limit. you want to know what needs to be upgraded before you upgrade it.

 

[13726548]

first thing you wanna do is learn the weak points in your car. like everyone said, you need to learn how to drive the car to its limit before you can push that limit. you want to know what needs to be upgraded before you upgrade it.

Well just from "pushing it" around mountain roads, I can feel some understeer on corner entry and oversteer on the way out. This was fixed by entering the corners at a slower speed, but that puts me behind.

The HPDE events sound like a lot of fun. But it looks like I need to have a SCCA membership to be allowed in. It's $85 per year for one plus $100 per event..seems pretty expensive to me. So I might just try autox.

 

[13726548]

if you do sways, get some shocks while you are at it. sways, springs, stock shocks gave me some funky handling characteristics at high speed... call sam strano. he'll set you straight if you just want to throw money at it.

What is your opinion on the FRPP handling kit?

 

[DRock]

What is your opinion on the FRPP handling kit?

For you can do better with the same amount of money or close too it.

 

[stang389]

no one has said it yet but brakes help alot with cornering..... learning where to brake and HOW to brake going into a corner will help your entry speed apex speed and corner out speed. when i did my first hdpe i would not push my car far enough into the corner and i would lose coming through the corner with a e46 m3. my instructor at the time showed me how to late brake in the corner control my hands(to not quick turn them on turn in) and the next lap had that m3 trying to figure your out how my solid axle(no lowering springs) passed him and left him through one corner.. as everyone else as said get the car out to an hpde. It will help with your everyday street drive as well as when you aggressively drive. hope this helps.. stainless brake lines good fluid and knowing how to use your brakes will help you get these heavy cars through a weekend at a hpde if you drive hard enough.

 

[Sleeper_08]

At an HPDE your track time will be measured in hours - not minutes like at an Auto-x. If you want to learn how to drive your car well then time spent on a real race track with a good instructor is the way to do it.

It is not cheap but money spent on seat time will probably produce a much bigger improvement in your driving than money spent on hardware, unless maybe you bought a GT3 RS

If you are intent on throwing momey at parts then talk to, listen to and buy from Sam Strano - he won't steer you wrong and will only suggest what will benefit you the most.

PS - our big heavy rear wheel drive cars benefit from "in slow and out fast".

In addition to upgrading the brake fluid to DOT 4 you will need better brake pads than stock for any serious track work.

 

[Cone Sweeper]

I will try my first auto x test session in Sebring this may through these folks, track guys. I have been told the same thing, quit throwing parts at my car and learn it first and build on that.
http://www.trackguys.com/

Did this event last year and had a blast. Learned so much in 2 days with a great instructor. It's been a huge benefit in doing an event like that, attend the classes after every session and listen to what they have to say..it WILL help a lot.

 

[Sky Render]

What kind of springs do you have? FYI, most "lowering springs" are junk. They lower your car without an adequate increase in spring rate, causing your suspension to bottom out when cornering.

The stock springs are better than a lot of the cheaper lowering springs out there.

 

[Philostang]

It is not cheap but money spent on seat time will probably produce a much bigger improvement in your driving than money spent on hardware, unless maybe you bought a GT3 RS

Awww, c'mon Sleep, I thought you should know better than that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOS9MwJ0PqI

Obviously we're sticking to the party line here: learn to drive. You'll be surprised at the improvements that a single weekend with an instructor will yield. Once you do it, you'll want to do it more.

I know cost is a major concern for lots of folks, but two things on that:

1. Not all organizations cost the same, not all tracks cost the same, and not all organizations offer the same level of instruction. So do your homework.

2. You are already planning on spending more money (did you say "coil overs"...!), so the parting of you and your cash is a given (at least in your mind). What is not a given is what you think is a worthy way to part with the cash. Part with it to get something "concrete" like a beefy sway bar!! Yeah!! Arrggh...grunt, grunt...snort, snort! (that's my "manly" impression). Or you can part with it to get something you cannot stroke in your hand...something less tangible, but no less "permanent," as the improvements you make in yourself as a driver will last a lifetime and will transfer immediately to any car you drive. The money is given, so ask, do you want to invest in an object or in yourself?

BTW, if you haven't guessed yet, one of those options leads to being much faster on track than the other...even if you have a GT3 RS.

Best,
-j

 

[SoundGuyDave]

A note on financials: NASA annual membership is $35, IIRC, and a weekend registration is around $300 or so, depending on the track. I don't know what the SCCA scheduling is like, but with NASA you'll get between four and five sessions a day, at 20+ minutes each, with an instructor as part of the package. That's close enough to three hours of one-on-one instruction, plus classroom time. That's pretty high value, when it boils down. Some tracks offer one-on-one instructors on a private basis starting at $900 per day. Yes, Autocross is cheaper in a bottom-line analysis, but on a per-hour basis, not so much. A handful of 40-second single runs does not give you the same learning opportunity as multiple laps back-to-back.

 

[pcdrj]

...

BTW, if you haven't guessed yet, one of those options leads to being much faster on track than the other...even if you have a GT3 RS.

Best,
-j

Last year at NJMP I took out my Spec Miata with a PCA group and lapped a GT3. Last month down at VIR we lapped a Ferrari. Now, my goal in my first SM NASA race in couple of weeks is to keep from getting lapped by those guys.