*** Oil pump worth the upgrade along with lockouts. ***

[stkjock]

it's not so much the power IMO, it's the boost levels and how the car is driven, I'm convinced that a stock gear set would live if one never jumped in and out of the throttle under boost. however can one be certain that you never do that? I can't so I got the extra protection of the billet set up

 

[Pike2244]

Sorry for being such a lament but from what I am reading you are talking about jumping on the throttle and letting off all under boost??? So more or less the fluctuation while in boost is the true demon?

 

[stkjock]

yea, jumping in and out of the throttle very quickly (usually due to wheel spin) the shock to the cylinders/rods/crank that is transmitted to the pump gears can and will (see my above pictures) shatter the gears.

 

[Pike2244]

Ok so if it is a matter of the fluctuation while in boost, does this problem get amplified with the more boost you run? Simply said; increasing boost levels increase the risk of gear issues???

 

[stkjock]

Ok so if it is a matter of the fluctuation while in boost, does this problem get amplified with the more boost you run? Simply said; increasing boost levels increase the risk of gear issues???

yes

 

[SherrodMustang]

hope this helps. If you have a extra set of hands I don't think you need to remove the tensioners. If you do remove them you will have to prime the oil system... Well wait a minute, your changing a oil pump. Might not hurt to prime the oil system anyway. Haha. And also if your engine has the 3v plastic tensioners they have a o-ring seal behind them that is easy to break. Be careful. But your built motor probably has the 2v steel tensioners.

Very good write up, thanks for it.

I guess some of it I could be skip, as I will not be changing the heads. Will I still need to take the intake off and crossover? Also I know with my build they reused the stock tensioners (must be the plastic ones). All I bought new was the vct sprockets/bolts and new chains. I guess it would be a good time to upgrade the tensioners too the 2v metal ones? Anything else would be good to replace?

no....... you can't tell from those bearings? the were seized to the crank, the one you see in the pic was chiseled off, the entire short block was junk.

Just more motivation for me to get the oil pump changed out. I would be so mad!

I have a question; so I have read similar threads on oil pump catastrophes and most say that w/ built motors to use billet gears. My question is this, no way really puts a hp / tq number on the point at which gears are necessary... I am finishing up a build that will put down approx. 590rwhp, so are gears necessary or could I get away without???

I ran my up to 596rwhp with a Saleen blower maxed out. But to be honest it made me nervous to watch. It has full vct and stock gt500 oil pump. Nobody knows a number for sure, when it goes it goes.

 

[Pike2244]

What did the Saleen max out at???

On another note since my build is just now (and I mean like next Monday) finishing up I don't want the car to be in the shop again for a week to tear the old one off and put the new one on... I was talked out of putting on a new one with gears and now thats all I am thinking about... I feel now that I should baby it until I do put one on???

 

[94tbird]

my personal opinion, and yo ucan take it or leave it is the casing is NOT an issue. the casing only breaks when the gears shatter. If you have biillet gears, the case will be fine. A stock GT or GT500 pump with TSS billet gears is all you need.

 

[SherrodMustang]

What did the Saleen max out at???

On another note since my build is just now (and I mean like next Monday) finishing up I don't want the car to be in the shop again for a week to tear the old one of and put the new one on... I was talked out of putting on a new one with gears and now thats all I am thinking about... I feel now that I should baby it until I do put one on???

I got about 15.6 lbs of boost from it. That is with a 18% overdrive and 2.8 pulley, Livernois heads and open exhaust with long tubes also play a role in the amount I seen on the dyno. Some more power was still left in the tune, but not much.

 

[Pike2244]

See I am looking at 16psi right now and the more I read the more nervous I get about the pump...

 

[SherrodMustang]

I feel you on that. Should have been more smart when I had my put together.

Live and learn, now just need to buck-up and get the oil pump order and lockouts and get to tacklen it.

 

[Pike2244]

I have the lockouts but no pump... Its not about biting the bullet and buying the pump; its more so about the fact that now w/out one I don't feel comfortable mashing it w/out one and that now my car will have to go back in the shop for who knows how long....

 

[NjsGT]

Sherrod, get that pump out of there man..... Protect your investment..... Also, if your going with lockouts, Id use the 4v bypass spring or the one you already have.... The 3v bypass spring works the best with our cars that still use the VCT

 

[SC boss]

I changed my pump went with the melling pump (bought from JPC) while the motor was in the car. I was so scared that i would lose my new motor over a oil pump failure so I did it for engine safety and piece of mind. The timing is so easy to set that I had to keep checking it because I felt that I was missing something. Make sure that you prime the oil system before you start it, thats not worth the risk of slipping your timing and having to pull stuff back apart.

 

[SherrodMustang]

I have the lockouts but no pump... Its not about biting the bullet and buying the pump; its more so about the fact that now w/out one I don't feel comfortable mashing it w/out one and that now my car will have to go back in the shop for who knows how long....

That is the same thing that I am feeling. Have alot of money tied up in the car now and would hate to have it all got to waste for a $300 pump.

Sherrod, get that pump out of there man..... Protect your investment..... Also, if your going with lockouts, Id use the 4v bypass spring or the one you already have.... The 3v bypass spring works the best with our cars that still use the VCT

I want to swap it out, just really didn't know how big of a job it would be. You guys are making feel that it something I could handle no problem with alittle patience and some good advice.

Not to sound stupid, what is the 4v bypass you are speaking of?

I changed my pump went with the melling pump (bought from JPC) while the motor was in the car. I was so scared that i would lose my new motor over a oil pump failure so I did it for engine safety and piece of mind. The timing is so easy to set that I had to keep checking it because I felt that I was missing something. Make sure that you prime the oil system before you start it, thats not worth the risk of slipping your timing and having to pull stuff back apart.

I'am right there now with the piece of mind thing. Glad to hear the timing is not that involved. What did you use to prime the system? I assume it pumps up the tensioners against the timing chains?



Thanks guys for your help

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

Not going to add any real insight here, but I think Dave has said it all. Billet oil pump gears!

 

[NjsGT]

That is the same thing that I am feeling. Have alot of money tied up in the car now and would hate to have it all got to waste for a $300 pump.



I want to swap it out, just really didn't know how big of a job it would be. You guys are making feel that it something I could handle no problem with alittle patience and some good advice.

Not to sound stupid, what is the 4v bypass you are speaking of?

The bypass springs basically control oil pressure output according to RPM..... Its pretty much a regulating device....

 

[SherrodMustang]

Not going to add any real insight here, but I think Dave has said it all. Billet oil pump gears!

Yeah, if for anything piece of mind and cheap insurance against future problems.

The bypass springs basically control oil pressure output according to RPM..... Its pretty much a regulating device....

So nothing to change or worrie about with Melling 10227. Just bolt in and go.


Also been looking at changing the plastic tensioners to the metal ones, good plan?

 

[NjsGT]

So nothing to change or worrie about with Melling 10227. Just bolt in and go.


Also been looking at changing the plastic tensioners to the metal ones, good plan?

Im not familiar with the melling's to be honest. You would have to do some research..... Id assume the 10227 would be identical when comepared to either a 3v or 4v bypassed ford pump.... As far as oil pressures and when they start to bypass....

You cant go wrong with upgrading to the steel tensioners if you have the $, its real easy to install them and to do the pump, it will be apart anyway... Thats something I didnt do with my motor.....

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

You cant go wrong with upgrading to the steel tensioners if you have the $, its real easy to install them and to do the pump, it will be apart anyway... Thats something I didnt do with my motor.....

Me either, but next time I have cause to take off the front cover Im going to swap to the metal tensioners