Roush R2300 475 HP Phase1 SC

Hello

I plan on getting a phase1 sc for my 2008 gt. Roush Phase 1 does not come with the fuel pump or boost a pump so how well does the stock pump work under load?

Do you have any accounts on this? I could not find adequate info.

I understand that with higher boost, you need to boost or change the pump.

Thanks

Hi Nick, I have the Roush TVS phase 1 on my 08 Bullitt. I am still running the stock fuel pump, BUT I have a kenne boost a pump and the S&H wiring upgrade.
On the stock Roush pulley, you will make 5.5-6psi, and should easily put down 400+ rwhp. On 6 psi and pump gas, my car made 440rwhp and 394lb ft at the wheels, on a custom dyno tune done locally.
You will also want to look into upgrading the Roush heat exchanger, as it is a bit undersized.

Thanks for the info. Assuming I want to stay at their default settings, 5.5-6psi, I was wondering if the stock pump (without any other changes) can sustain that continuous load. E.g can you gas it for 20 minutes at that load or what is the scenario they had in mind when they said you only need the stock?

Nick389_1 said:

can you gas it for 20 minutes

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Where do you think you are going to hold 6psi boost for 20 minutes? Also the GT 500 dual fuel pump kit from Ford comes with a plug and play wiring harness, second fuel pump controller, instructions and will solve your fuel supply problem with no cutting, splicing or grafting.

@Midlife Crises of course it was an exaggeration, I was just asking how choked would the stock pump be for the default settings of this kit.
Also, correct me please if I'm wrong, but doesn't the TVS kit provide constant pressure along the rpm lines, versus the centrifugal ?

Nick389_1 said:

constant pressure

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Well no. Boost will go up and down with the throttle setting and engine load because the throttle is in front of the blower. As far as the fuel pump goes, if you have any thoughts of changing the drive pulley for more boost don’t try it with the stock pump. Go to the GT 500 dual pump setup.

Nick389_1 said:

@Midlife Crises of course it was an exaggeration, I was just asking how choked would the stock pump be for the default settings of this kit.
Also, correct me please if I'm wrong, but doesn't the TVS kit provide constant pressure along the rpm lines, versus the centrifugal ?

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Mash the gas on any positive displacement blower, and you get instant, max boost, bam right now, even from idle. PD blower's give you the...'low end TQ hit'. With centrifugal blowers, boost increases to the square of the RPM. IE: mash the gas from idle..and say it is 8 psi at 6 krpm, it will be aprx 2 psi @ 3 krpm.....and .5 psi @ 1500 rpm.

Easiest way to reduce the FPDC (fuel pump duty cycle)is to run a new, dedicated 10 gauge wire..directly from positive terminal of battery.... ( through a fuse), then to trunk area, then into where the spare tire resides, fpdc etc. That will reduce the FPDC by at least 10%. If you still require more fuel, then any of the BAPs, like from VMP etc, will work. Dual GT-500 fuel pumps also work. Steeda made an add on the existing oem pump...where a 2nd identical pump is added to the oem pump..making it a dual pump. The BAP is just an unregulated 12-14 vdc input..and a constant 17.0 vdc output..dc to dc device.

If dual pumps don't cut it, then a dual BAP can be used ( sucks 40A @ WOT)... so typ 8 ga wire is run from battery to trunk.

LT's will also add a substantial amount of hp /tq..and work in both NA + blower mode. For..'normal' street / hwy driving, blower is never on for more than 5-12 secs at a time. 0-100 mph comes pretty damn quick. 50-100 mph is even quicker.

Thanks for the useful info on pump.
I'm also looking at the 2.3L whipple 550HP kit, which is a bit more expensive, but has the dual fuel pump, larger intercooler etc.
So, if I choose this kit, what about upgrades to other components? Driveshaft? flywheel? or would the stock ones supposedly hold up ?
Engine wise , I've read the 450 lb torque is like a good max to settle on stock internals. Can you give me some more info on this?

Also, if it matters, I'm running on 95/98 octane, so maybe the boost is going to be a bit lower?

Nick389_1 said:

Engine wise, I've read the 450 lb torque is like a good max to settle on stock internals. Can you give me some more info on this?

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According to Brent White at Brenspeed, the stock connecting rods are good up to 450rwtq. The horsepower (i.e. rpm) doesn't matter as long as the torque at maximum HP is still not more than 450rwtq.
Excessive cylinder pressure is what bends or breaks the stock powdered metal connecting rods in the 4.6 3V either because of detonation or too much boost.

For sbe hard to beat a new 262 405lph dcss pump in the oem hat for reliability and dedicated power wire upgrade to the fpdm. Will easily supply the fuel to support all your power needs up to 600hp. So on a stock block boosted setup you wont even be taxing the pump hard. And it's cheaper than a bap or dual pump setup, S&H Performance has complete budget kits.

Nick389_1 said:

Thanks for the useful info on pump.

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Just call JeremyH. He will get you what you need at a damn good price and provide whatever support you need after the sale. It doesn't get any better than this.

450 hp and 6000 rpm or less without detonation and you'll be good. The rods have a fatigue life. The more time spent at high hp and high rpm, the sooner they will fail.

Yes I've seen many of Brenspeed's videos, that's where I took the 450lb ft quote from I'm tempted to order an Edelbrock from them.

since this thread has become an opinion on what to pick - moving to chat

Dino Dino Bambino said:

According to Brent White at Brenspeed, the stock connecting rods are good up to 450rwtq. The horsepower (i.e. rpm) doesn't matter as long as the torque at maximum HP is still not more than 450rwtq.
Excessive cylinder pressure is what bends or breaks the stock powdered metal connecting rods in the 4.6 3V either because of detonation or too much boost.

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Wow, OK. I'm probably running on borrowed time. My car dynoed 485rwhp/460rwtq like 60K miles ago. And I drive her like she's stolen. She doesn't do any track time any more and I reduced timing by 2* across the board when she went to daily duties, but I still gotta be near the edge.

Shelby Motorsports did my tuning here in Vegas. I figured the numbers were safe.

That 450rwtq is a ballpark figure and it doesn't mean your engine will blow up if it's making 451rwhp. The tune can make all the difference and you could suffer engine damage at well below 450rwtq with a poor tune. Long WOT pulls in 4th gear at higher rpm are likely to pose the most risk.

Nick389_1 said:

Yes I've seen many of Brenspeed's videos, that's where I took the 450lb ft quote from I'm tempted to order an Edelbrock from them.

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I ordered my Edelbrock from them on my 05. Two things. First, their customer service sucks. When I picked up the unit in person, I was told by both a mechanic on site and the salesman that the Edelbrock wiring harness is not great, If there is a problem, call and they can send another. When a problem with mine developed , I was promised a new one, it never came. Another time I had a problem with the cam tune. Absolutely no help. Ive also bought headers, cam, and other parts form them so Ive drop quite a bit of cash with them. Second, while I was happy with the way the car ran at first with the Brenspeed tune that comes with the kit, it pales greatly compared to the tune from Lito. Figure on switching tunes as soon as possible with whatever kit you go with. I do like my kit and have no regrets with its purchase.

I`m at the limits of the internals with my Edelbrock @ 8-9 pounds of boost and E85 conversion. Just don't get stupid with the car and avoid drag slicks and you'll be fine.
The BAP and stock fuel pump worked great at 450RWHP. It wasn't until the E85 conversion that I needed a fuel pump upgrade.

Dino Dino Bambino said:

That 450rwtq is a ballpark figure and it doesn't mean your engine will blow up if it's making 451rwhp. The tune can make all the difference and you could suffer engine damage at well below 450rwtq with a poor tune. Long WOT pulls in 4th gear at higher rpm are likely to pose the most risk.

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The oem rods are pretzel sticks. Push it too hard repeatedly, and they will eventually succumb to metal fatigue. For my street use, I left the boost at 5.7 psi.....and then installed the LT's and hi-flow cats..and a 94 tune..and 62mm TB. I make almost as much hp as folks with the smaller pulley. But Lt's are a lot more $$ vs a smaller pulley. ( this is on the 2010 version of a Roush M90 blower, with cai on driver's side).

After a long search I settled on the DOB (Dept of Boost) kit which I installed myself and very happy with. They're well made and as easy to install as any of the other kits I've seen. Plenty of horsepower/compressor options to choose from. Whatever system you decide on recommend upgrading to a larger heat exchanger and better water pump. Most of the kits out there use a heat exchanger that is too small to keep your IAT's (Intake Air Temps) down enough under spirited driving to maintain full power or even close to it. See tech sections on the site....

DieHarder said:

After a long search I settled on the DOB (Dept of Boost) kit which I installed myself and very happy with. They're well made and as easy to install as any of the other kits I've seen. Plenty of horsepower/compressor options to choose from. Whatever system you decide on recommend upgrading to a larger heat exchanger and better water pump. Most of the kits out there use a heat exchanger that is too small to keep your IAT's (Intake Air Temps) down enough under spirited driving to maintain full power or even close to it. See tech sections on the site....

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I agree 100%. I should have stated this in my reply. This past winter, I installed a VMP heat exchanger and Davies-Craig water pump. Just this morning, I took the car for a drive. Temperature was upper 80’s and water temperature was 95 before intercooler and 99 after intercooler. IAT was 101 IIRC. Yes, I have two water temperature gauges to monitor intercooler operation. These temperatures are 25-30°F cooler than with stock heat exchanger and water pump.