2:1 Mustang v Camaro

Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by tjm73, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. Rich

    Rich Member

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    I agree with that. I had the 392 in my 2014 Challenger SRT8 and that thing pulled like a beast, even in a car that big. 2nd and 3rd were a blast.
     
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  2. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    'Cause everyone who buys a V8 Challenger thinks he's Kowalski, just as everyone (at least from my generation) who drives a V8 Mustang thinks he's Steve McQueen. :lol:
    It's too bad that the Dodge Charger doesn't look like the late 60s version. Then anyone driving that would think he's Bo Duke.
    GM could also bring back the Pontiac Trans Am for Burt Reynolds fans.

    Yeah a 392 Hemi with bolt ons (Hellcat airbox, Hellcat throttle body, LT headers, and tune) is a torque monster.
     
  3. 06 T-RED S/C GT

    06 T-RED S/C GT forum member

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    The main reason IMO, is due to stricter crash safety standards in addition to requiring more space to fit safety cells, airbags, crumple zones and so on. Prior to purchasing my first S197 Mustang in "05" I owned 3 Fox body Mustangs which the last one was a black "93" SVT Cobra. Shortly after purchasing the "05" GT, it took quite awhile in getting used to the much larger size of the S197 compared to the smaller Fox body cars. As much as I really enjoyed the Fox bodies, the S197 cars are light years ahead in engineering, much improved chassis platform, powertrain and overall advanced technology in general. At any rate, I'll always have very fond memories of the Fox body cars, but despite the larger size of the S197 Mustang platform, I've also enjoyed them just as much during these last 16 years and also feel much more secure in knowing that if in the event of being involved in a collision? the odds of surviving will be far greater than compared to 20-25 years ago. That being said, when taking into consideration all the pros and cons between the Fox body vs the S197 platform is concerned, the S197 Mustang is by far the clear winner, hands down IMHO.
     
    Rich likes this.
  4. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    Since the mid 2000's I have been saying the 5.7 hemi is a great motor, just wish they built a better truck around it.
    You can say the exact same thing with the cummins.
     
  5. Sactown

    Sactown Sactown

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    drove a co-workers 2018 (I think) Z28, the first thing I noticed after getting into the super small cabin was you can't see shit out of the windows, other than that the car drove fine, personally I don't think they look horrible, but I would not own one.
     
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  6. Racer47

    Racer47 Doesn't have much to say S197 Team Member

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  7. Flapjack

    Flapjack Lunatic engine swapper

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    Not sure why people are yearning for the pushrod over a high-tech engine like the coyote. Pushrods are great for torque, sure, but I feel GM's lack of a GREAT OHC V8 is what is killing them now. Just the fact that they need huge displacement or a supercharger to compete with the Mustang is a testament to how badly the SBC needs to die.
     
  8. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Simpler, smaller, cheaper.

    I'd rather have my power at/below 6000 rpm and the robust push rod tech gets that job done.
     
    Rich likes this.
  9. Racer47

    Racer47 Doesn't have much to say S197 Team Member

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    Its not the pushrod vs ohc for me. Its the lack of displacement. Ford consistently makes small cid motors. A 281ci, come on. It took forever to get a 351 back in a mustang. That should be the standard V8. I need to push 14psi+ into my now little 302 to make decent power. While chevy is offering 427ci LS motors that bolt into anything that came with any LS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  10. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Imagine 5.7 liters of DOHC power.......
     
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  11. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    complete lunacy, GM's powertrains are incredible. Two ways to skin a cat.

    I don't think that Ford needs to change anything. Look at this:

     
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  12. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Agree totally. There is nothing wrong or right about the DOHC architecture or the push rod architecture. Just go about their business doing what they individually do well. All of it is an exercise in compromise for the desired end result.
     
  13. Flapjack

    Flapjack Lunatic engine swapper

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    I will agree, size is a good argument for the SBC. They fit in so many places a V8 shouldn't fit.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of the SBC, but the pushrod is a dinosaur on its last legs. Show me a factory 5.0L SBC making 460+ HP. That's not common. Maybe there is one, as I don't know every Chebbie engine ever, but it just seems that GM has been hurting in the V8 department for a while. Sure, you can throw a supercharger on it and make better power, but the GT500 can do that, too. 5.2L @ 700HP vs 6.2L @ 650HP. I hate math, but that comparison is pretty easy.
     
  14. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    The Stingray uses a new version of the LS based GM small-block engine derived from the C7 Stingray's LT1, now called the LT2.[12] The new naturally aspirated 6.2 L V8 is rated at 490 hp (365 kW; 497 PS) at 6,450 rpm and 465 lb⋅ft (630 N⋅m) of torque at 5,150 rpm

    0-60 in 2.8 or less. Zero reason to limit displacement to 5.0 as bore spacing and compactness allow for more displacement in a lot less space. You trade some displacement in because you cannot utilize a lightweight valvetrain. The chevrolet engine would have to have a near identical emissions profile.
     
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  15. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    As good as the 5.0 DOHC is (and it is exceedingly good) I don't think it's totally the right tool for the job in a pickup truck. The 7.3 ticks all the right boxes for an engine that does real work.

    I recently had a 2007 5.4 3V F150 that I used to tow my 5500 travel trailer. It always got the job done but it used ever bit of it's power every time I towed with it and when I needed more all I had was what I had. There was no more to give. I'm now using my Dad's 2000 F350 dually with a 7.3 diesel since new truck prices are insane and used truck prices are almost as bad. I'm still considering what to do next for a truck that has to daily and tow to my expectations.

    How many F150's with a smaller displacement 7.3 based engine do you think Ford would sell? It'd be a lot. Cost of operation and repair would be comparatively small over the 3.5EB and any diesel option. The 3.5EB is awesome but the repair stories I hear are horrific. A big simple, cheap to buy, cheap to operate, cheap to repair naturally aspirated V8 would sell like hot cakes.

    For sub 5000 rpm work, pushrod. For high rpm performance, DOHC. You can gut a deer with a scalpel, but a good hunting knife gets the job done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  16. Flapjack

    Flapjack Lunatic engine swapper

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    Being a torque monster, pushrod V8, that LT2 doesn't seem all that impressive.... especially displacing 6.2L. The current 5.0L Coyote is much smaller in displacement, does 460HP/420TQ (similar ratio to the 490/465 you reported), and hits that torque at 4600rpm (vs 5150).

    Sorry... not impressed by chebbie engines lately, and that LT2 is no different. I'd like to scale the Coyote out to 6.2L and see what you get. Just doing some quick, lazy math... I'd expect 570HP/521TQ.

    Good point. A 6.2L pushrod would be a large footprint engine.
     
  17. Flapjack

    Flapjack Lunatic engine swapper

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    Honestly, for towing, I would have a diesel... period. I do like seeing what companies (esp Dodge) have done with smaller diesels lately. Pretty impressive.
     
  18. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Cost of operation and purchase price are unsustainable for small operations and people like myself that tow occasionally to go diesel. And if their is a powertrain failure it's crazy expensive to fix. The fact that it takes something like close to 300,000 miles to break even on only the cost to choose the diesel engine option (regardless of all other purchase prices and operation expenses), tells me nobody outside fleets that can bill accordingly need to utilize this option.

    I towed with my Dad's 2000 F350 dually 7.3 Powerstroke last summer. It was awesome. I totally get the diesel idea, but it's not cost effective.
     
  19. 1950StangJump$

    1950StangJump$ forum member

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    The Camaro hate here seems like homerism.

    I have owned several examples of Camaros, Firebirds and Mustangs, and I like them all for different reasons.

    If we do an apples to apples comparison and look at the newest Mustang platform versus the newest Camaro platform, I think the Camaro wins aesthetically by a long shot; the S550 looks like a Honda Prelude until you get into the high end versions (GT350/500).
     
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  20. tjm73

    tjm73 of Omicron Persei 8 S197 Team Member

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    Because to some degree that's what it takes to sell on the World stage. From what I understand it's been a success abroad.
     
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