2007 GT Throttle Issue

[StockishS197]

Hi StockishS197,

This is interesting..........

Do you happen to know the '07 MY Spanish Oaks ECU OS\Strategy code of the OS being used in your car's ECU (7-digit code)?

The only Ford OEM Spanish Oaks ECU OS\Strategy code I know of that has TM Manual Transmission Truncation (engine TQ output by gear control) enabled is FPAN054 (specifically run in Spanish Oaks ECUs fitted to the Ford 05-10 S197 FR500 class series factory race cars). I have a copy of all manual OEM GT Spanish Oaks tune calibrations from 05 thru 10 MY's & a couple of Spanish Oaks based GT500 tune calibrations (1 '07 MY & 1 '10 MY), but the Spanish Oaks OEM OS strategy I've listed here was the only 1 I've seen to date that has this feature enabled from Ford for a manual trans...........autos have this feature by default (use engine TQ output among other parameters to determine gear shift logic\points).

This feature, as I understand it, was intended to be used primarily instead of ABS to control engine TQ output by gear for competitive racing purposes (road racing, HPDE, drag racing, etc.)......that I've noted in the 2 copies I have in hand, this feature was disabled thru the tune calibration by default (engine TQ output was set to some ridiculously high number that the engines would not achieve for all gears thus "disables" it thru the tune), but at least the feature was available\enabled in the OS\Strategy (or firmware if preferred) to be used.

Just curious to know...........

Strategy is FSAD0T2

Now I am curious, as it would be helpful to know why it was kicking on at lower speeds, as my previous 06 definitely didn’t do it either.

FWIW, the car is an early MY07 (March of 2006) build that was built for a Ford exec in Michigan.

 

[GlassTop09]

FWIW, the car is an early MY07 (March of 2006) build that was built for a Ford exec in Michigan.

Ding, ding, ding, Bingo!..........I believe we have a winner!

Yours is most likely a special order\equipped ECU\vehicle that was outside of what was normally available\offered to the general public.........thus had this specific feature enabled in this specific Spanish Oaks OS\Strategy code controller. So far, I've found that even the period specific MY GT500's didn't come w\ this feature enabled stock in their Spanish Oaks based ECUs.........only the FR500 class series factory racers to date.

Now I am curious, as it would be helpful to know why it was kicking on at lower speeds, as my previous 06 definitely didn’t do it either.

This specific Ford exec may have had this feature set up & tuned in this car from factory or by an associate Ford engineer that knows\does tuning on the side as favors............only a guess.

Depends on the settings used in the tune calibration according to the specific gear selected according to Torque Management engine TQ output calcs based on several factors (load, RPM, SD vs MAF airmass calcs, VCT mapping, etc).........thus the only way to know is to know what settings were being used in TM Trans Truncation then look at datalogged ECU calc'd TQ Requests vs actual EBTQ (engine brake torque) outputs to see if any of this was in excess of any engine TQ output settings inputted in TM Trans Truncation mapping..........

Meaning, you'd need to have access to SCT Advantage Pro tuning software to have access to the tune calibration along w\ the SCT Live Link II datalogging you already have..................thus you're already on the slippery slope of wanting to get into doing your own tuning.......if you're serious about really wanting to know about this kind of stuff............or you'll have to take your tuner's word on what they have told you (Lito is a good 1 to trust from all that I have read\heard...........).

Your choice...........

Hope this helps.

 

[StockishS197]

Ding, ding, ding, Bingo!..........I believe we have a winner!

Yours is most likely a special order\equipped ECU\vehicle that was outside of what was normally available\offered to the general public.........thus had this specific feature enabled in this specific Spanish Oaks OS\Strategy code controller. So far, I've found that even the period specific MY GT500's didn't come w\ this feature enabled stock in their Spanish Oaks based ECUs.........only the FR500 class series factory racers to date.

This specific Ford exec may have had this feature set up & tuned in this car from factory or by an associate Ford engineer that knows\does tuning on the side as favors............only a guess.

Depends on the settings used in the tune calibration according to the specific gear selected according to Torque Management engine TQ output calcs based on several factors (load, RPM, SD vs MAF airmass calcs, VCT mapping, etc).........thus the only way to know is to know what settings were being used in TM Trans Truncation then look at datalogged ECU calc'd TQ Requests vs actual EBTQ (engine brake torque) outputs to see if any of this was in excess of any engine TQ output settings inputted in TM Trans Truncation mapping..........

Meaning, you'd need to have access to SCT Advantage Pro tuning software to have access to the tune calibration along w\ the SCT Live Link II datalogging you already have..................thus you're already on the slippery slope of wanting to get into doing your own tuning.......if you're serious about really wanting to know about this kind of stuff............or you'll have to take your tuner's word on what they have told you (Lito is a good 1 to trust from all that I have read\heard...........).

Your choice...........

Hope this helps.

All I heard from this was SCT Advantage Pro

Very interesting - hopefully this means it’s not some sort of mechanical issue, but rather intentionally in the PCM itself from Ford for whatever purpose (test bed, exec preference, etc). Whatever Lito did in the tune solved the issue, and car is running better than ever.

Thanks for the intel, I have some marching orders for now.

 

[StockishS197]

Circling back on this thread.

The throttle issue is still resolved, however some of the other “quirks” I have been experiencing remain, but more importantly have started to get two codes somewhat consistently on warm start ups - P0300/P0316.

I datalogged misfires on startup and sure enough there are evenly distributed misfires on all cylinders (not one specifically).

Another oddity I have been chasing - intermittent decel backfiring (not just burbles), as if spark is cut or bad spark plugs. Plugs and COPs are new and look great. Car runs good at WOT.

I also had an odd issue where TCS kicked on, car then was misfiring fairly badly almost like it was in limp mode (no CEL), but then cleared up after 10-15 seconds.

knowing these cars, I thought perhaps the Duralast Gold alternator that’s on it could be suspect, but had it bench tested at a parts store and is charging fine - assuming they checked AC ripple. Battery is a year old. No CMP sensor codes.

At this point, I’m wondering could this be something damaged in the PCM or potentially a CKP sensor?

 

[StockishS197]

Ding, ding, ding, Bingo!..........I believe we have a winner!

Yours is most likely a special order\equipped ECU\vehicle that was outside of what was normally available\offered to the general public.........thus had this specific feature enabled in this specific Spanish Oaks OS\Strategy code controller. So far, I've found that even the period specific MY GT500's didn't come w\ this feature enabled stock in their Spanish Oaks based ECUs.........only the FR500 class series factory racers to date.

This specific Ford exec may have had this feature set up & tuned in this car from factory or by an associate Ford engineer that knows\does tuning on the side as favors............only a guess.

Depends on the settings used in the tune calibration according to the specific gear selected according to Torque Management engine TQ output calcs based on several factors (load, RPM, SD vs MAF airmass calcs, VCT mapping, etc).........thus the only way to know is to know what settings were being used in TM Trans Truncation then look at datalogged ECU calc'd TQ Requests vs actual EBTQ (engine brake torque) outputs to see if any of this was in excess of any engine TQ output settings inputted in TM Trans Truncation mapping..........

Meaning, you'd need to have access to SCT Advantage Pro tuning software to have access to the tune calibration along w\ the SCT Live Link II datalogging you already have..................thus you're already on the slippery slope of wanting to get into doing your own tuning.......if you're serious about really wanting to know about this kind of stuff............or you'll have to take your tuner's word on what they have told you (Lito is a good 1 to trust from all that I have read\heard...........).

Your choice...........

Hope this helps.

Hey GlassTop, curious to get your thoughts as I am still tracking down some other issues (see P0300 and P0316 in comment below) that I am working with Lito on in the tune.

I pulled the PCM and just appears to be a normal 07 4.6 Manual PCM (XZE2 PCM code).

Curious to see if you know or have any thoughts, what are some other potential causes for Transmission Truncation that you could think of? Seems odd the car would think it’s going into reverse while coasting in neutral during free rev. Seems very uncommon for manual cars to see Torque reduction due to Truncation with the T3650. Sounds like later coyote cars with MT82s did occasionally have that issue.

 

[GlassTop09]

Hi StockishS197,

1st off, from how I'm interpreting your posting, you're confused on just what the 4-digit PCM code (hardware build ID within the physical PCM in question....ie, CPU, board layout, I\O, circuit board pinout, etc) implies vs my reply post in another thread that concerns the 7-digit Spanish Oaks OS\Strategy code (software build ID or programming that is designed\coded to run on a PCM's specific hardware build) that contains a specific software feature (Torque Management Manual Trans Truncation) coded into it & what this implies vs your specific power train issues ((the P0300 & P0316 DTC's.....these are IM Readiness Component Self-Check diagnostic issues--external\internal I\O functions that have violated internal PCM self-check function diagnostic thresholds thus have caused these DTC's to be thrown--pending--then set--permanent--if the offending condition(s) have not been resolved within a certain # of drive cycles--as few as 2 or as many as 6--depending on the specific condition(s) causing the violations)) which then becomes permanent & sets the MIL.

Long story short, if you're not doing your own tuning yourself (as I also posted in the bottom of my post that you've referred to), then it's not helpful to try to explain any of the ins\outs of a SO PCM's hardware ID code & the relation that the SO PCM's OS Strategy ID code has to each other..........these in general have nothing to do w\ any IM Readiness Component self-check DTC's thus too many folks make this stuff into a red herring to try to assign fault\blame as to why 1 can't resolve a DTC (usually towards the tuner if the PCM was tuned prior).......unless you go thru all the various things outside of the PCM 1st that can cause these DTC's & verify that all these items aren't the cause (these are many) before any focus should be put towards the tuner.....especially if tuner is tuning remotely\PCM itself (usually will end up being some type of hardware fault on the PCM's circuit board\pinout once ALL of the other items that are potential causes are checked & verified to NOT be the culprit--includes wiring & connections checks as well as external components.....but not always...).......but in general, since you've already gone there, TM Torque Truncation is basically OS programmed engine TQ output control by gear, very common in all SO Ford PCM's that control 5R55S auto trans BUT also can be used in SO PCM's that control manual trans IF the specific OS\Strategy ID software that has this feature coded in it is used in a SO PCM that has the hardware onboard to allow it to be used (allows the engine's TQ output to be matched to the specific trans gear ratio being used to optimize power output to ground so vehicle is easier\more predictable to drive or control......especially useful on vehicles using DBW throttle control & are used in some type of competitive racing.......especially those that are FI\ SC'd but also NA if desired.
To date this feature was only offered by Ford, that I know of, on the factory '08-up Spanish Oaks-based S197 FR500S race cars & on the '10 MY Spanish Oaks-based GT500 only (discovered this 1 later on)......thus is a special performance enhancing feature not offered to the general public as an option on production line 05-10 GT's & 07-09 GT500's.......only to certain insider access........most standalone PCM's usually have some form of this feature coded into their firmware by default.......which has nothing to do w\ your specific DTC issues.

So just by me laying this out, it should be very clear that this "feature" isn't a common feature coded into all production line 05-10 SO GT's & it shouldn't be implied that this has anything in common w\ the run of the mill IM Readiness coding used to report IM Readiness Component Self-Check faults to then try to "tell" your tuner to "help" them resolve your issues.

So, I'm sorry but I'm not gonna get in between you & your tuner (Lito).......if you were doing your own tuning, it'd be a different story as I know of some tune settings that can help to create the P0316 DTC w\ these FRPP Hot Rod cams if not known\understood well enough as well as a component that is frequently removed that can also influence a P0316 DTC.......but since you're using a tuner other than yourself, this is best resolved between the 2 of you.

As far as the P0300\P0316 DTC's go, these are usually resolved by tuners changing some tune calibration settings in the Misfire Monitor to not allow this monitor to run during a cold start up to hot idle (this monitor can't be disabled, only tricked) or, if so equipped w\ Ford's PCMTech programming software, can go into the OS Strategy coding & reprogram the IM Readiness specific misfire TID threshold %'s to allow the unnatural crankshaft velocity variation patterns caused by these FRPP Hot Rod cams cam timing profile to fall within "acceptable" diagnostic threshold limits thus not set off these DTC's, or get someone that has Ford's IDS software to then run a neutral neural profile test on your car w\ these FRPP Hot Rod cams installed to capture the unnatural crankshaft velocity variation pattern in the PCM's non-volatile memory--so the PCM has the pattern saved to then ID these patterns as normal thru the CKP sensor.

Good luck w\ this....................US EPA has caught up w\ this stuff............won't be an issue for Lito..........but different for you if the EPA comes knocking......FWIW.

Which most everything I've typed here your tuner most likely already knows................so IMHO you need to heed to what Lito is telling you from a tuner's standpoint\perspective........or start going thru the tuner carousel to find 1 who will do what you think you want them to do............or buy the necessary tuning equipment of your choice & start doing this stuff yourself.........then you'll start finding out what is really real from what is thought of as "perception".

To be fair, this can go both ways as the only folks who really know all the truth are the Ford OEM calibration engineers or some fortunate individual(s) who have access to the Ford calibration "C" code books\files..............no one else.

So, to give some help FWIW, focus on the P0316 DTC as this DTC is usually set from PCM monitoring initial crankshaft velocity variation out of relative pattern (this action is what is referred to as a "misfire".......but more than plugs or coils failing can cause an out of relative pattern......thus the term "misfire" is really a subjective term........) during engine startup (why the 1st 1,000 RPM's) where a LOT of things can cause this (cold start fueling issues--ie, dirty\leaking injectors, fuel filter, fuel pump sock, FRP sensor, bad fuel quality, etc, ignition issues, cylinder issues--ie, valve or ring leakage or oil contamination, MAF sensor issues, TB issues, EVAP issues--ie, leaking CPV, vacuum leaks, so on & so on..........note: O2 sensors are exempt from this P0316 DTC due to PCM being in OL during startup for at least 15 secs if sensors are warm enough to operate then PCM switches into CL from here on.....but can be influencing a P0300 DTC though.....FYI) anything that can cause the engine to stumble during the 1st 1,000 RPM's upon startup (PCM deems engine is started when the engine RPM's exceed 300 after starter engagement.....starter can only spin engine to a max of 160-180 RPM's depending on starter design\quality\battery CCA output......thus "crank" but not "run"). How smooth does the engine starts\runs up to\past the 1st 1,000 RPM's is the key........not necessarily how the FRPP Hot Rod cam's profile is ground..........too many folks use this as a crutch to explain away a P0316 DTC.........

A P0300 DTC is the PCM reading the same out of relative crankshaft velocity variation behavior, but the behavior can't be tied\linked specifically to a specific cylinder thus is deemed to be random.........which is somewhat normal operational pattern during idle w\ FRPP Hot Rod cams due to their timing profile (IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC along w\ OL) when set at VCT 0* position only........the lower the idle speed, the worse this will get.

My 2 cents..............hope this helps.

 

[StockishS197]

Thanks for the detailed response GlassTop - this is helpful.

Yes, understand that the Trans Truncation and P0300/P0316 are likely mutually exclusive.

Just tying to piece together if the TM Trans Truncation being enabled/effecting torque source on a manual car is likely to be a PCM fault (PCM thinking it’s going into reverse for whatever reason), or if it truly may have been some OS/Strategy modification done at Ford, to help me track down any potential grounds/wiring or PCM faults there.

 

[GlassTop09]

Thanks for the detailed response GlassTop - this is helpful.

Yes, understand that the Trans Truncation and P0300/P0316 are likely mutually exclusive.

Just tying to piece together if the TM Trans Truncation being enabled/effecting torque source on a manual car is likely to be a PCM fault (PCM thinking it’s going into reverse for whatever reason), or if it truly may have been some OS/Strategy modification done at Ford, to help me track down any potential grounds/wiring or PCM faults there.

Then I'll give you a free one to do after you finish doing all your checks................regardless of what some may say concerning this SO PCM's ability to "self-calibrate" it's CKP sensor, you're much better off IMHO to physically do this yourself so that you'll KNOW the parameters\conditions involved when the PCM calibrates\sets this CKP sensor.

It is called the 60-40 Misfire Monitor calibration procedure for Spanish Oaks PCM's.......after a KAM reset (preferably a hard reset by disconnecting the neg batt cable for a few minutes then reconnect it........or if tuning, right after a tune flash\reflash into the PCM), this puts the PCM into full learning mode & this calibration is 1 of the tests the PCM is looking for completion before the PCM can start recording any misfire data in Mode 6 Component Self-Check function (otherwise all 0% data will be showing in Mode 6 Misfire Monitor until this calibration fully completes.......even though the IM Readiness will show the Misfire Monitor as completed\passed....thus potentially false data if read before the actual CKP calibration is set\completed)..........
1.) Drive car normally until the MPH exceeds 60 MPH then 2.) let off the APP fully & allow the car to coast\slowdown in gear (if manual, 4th gear\1:1 ratio is best) while keeping your foot off the APP (so the PCM will go into DFSO), brakes and\or clutch pedal if manual trans until the MPH drops below 40 MPH, then accel car again back past 60 MPH then repeat this again until you do this complete cycle in the same manner as laid out at least 3 consecutive times then the PCM will self-save this learned CKP sensor trigger wheel-to-CKP sensor calibration data then enable misfire recording in the Misfire Monitor (the PCM is learning the difference in actual CKP trigger wheel-to-CKP sensor relationship\response between a loaded engine condition vs an unloaded engine condition.........which will be used to determine\learn relative crankshaft velocity variation patterns across all cyls of the engine to then look for "misfires"........why I recommend to physically do this yourself.....).

By doing this manually yourself (especially if you can do this on a known stretch of remote road that is not flat\level.....adds differing load to the engine while under accel & decel thus you can potentially achieve a better overall avg CKP calibration instead of allowing the PCM to randomly "calibrate itself"), you can sometimes rectify a P0316 DTC w\o doing anything further.........the key word here is sometimes, depending on how close to a failing threshold you are to actually getting back within the "good" area.

Once this is done, it is done until the PCM is hard reset again thru a scan tool\tuner interface or loses batt + power thru neg cable disconnect.............

The main thing here...........this is essentially free......outside of the costs of some fuel & your time.