2008 Stage 3 ROUSH - Rebirth...

AutoXRacer

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Really? Man what a relief!!! How many miles on your motor? Do you race it, daily drive it, etc?

What kind of oil (weight) do you use? I would imagine that larger clearances requires thicker oil? But how does that affect the other rotating assemblies that are tight like the cams?
 

dysan

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My car is mainly for drag racing now that I drive to and from the track. I'm probably just over 1000 miles on the new engine and running 5w30 Penzoil conventional oil. VCT system is gone and cams are degreed 6* retard (127300 cams). My next oil change I will switch over to synthetic and 10w30 now that it has warmed up outside.

I beat the snot out of my car racing twice a week if the weather permits.
 

AutoXRacer

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Do you know why your builder went to those clearances versus the stock spec?

I'm trying to understand why go with more open clearance... What advantages/disadvantages are there.

He keeps saying its the formula that dictates clearances plus adding in performance application factors.
 

dysan

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Do you know why your builder went to those clearances versus the stock spec?

I'm trying to understand why go with more open clearance... What advantages/disadvantages are there.

He keeps saying its the formula that dictates clearances plus adding in performance application factors.

Off the top of my head, no I don't, but I believe it is for better oiling of the crank.
 

AutoXRacer

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So my builder had me order two sets of bearings...

Clevite MS2259H (std) and MS2259HX (+0.001" extra clearance)

I'm still uneasy...

Anyone else with words of wisdom/experience?
 

eighty6gt

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None. I'd follow the factory spec. I'd also have a look at the GT500 journal size, clearances, and oil viscosity at 40, 100f, or whatever they use.
 

AutoXRacer

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None. I'd follow the factory spec. I'd also have a look at the GT500 journal size, clearances, and oil viscosity at 40, 100f, or whatever they use.

GT500 basically has the same clearances for the mains.

GT500 5.4L: 0.001891"-0.0009"
GT 4.6L: 0.0019"-0.0009"
 

eighty6gt

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So if the journals are the same size, and the clearances are the same, and the power levels that the GT500 mill runs are the same as what you're dealing with (bearing loads,) you have to ask yourself who knows better...

Ford Engineers

or your machinist?

Maybe neither.

I know when I do my engine I'm sticking to whatever Ford did. It's been working for almost 90,000 miles now.
 

deebo05

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the extra clearances in there benefit in a couple ways it will drop your hot oil psi down, which will free up a little hp. also it will provide extra cushion of oil, which is very important high boost blowers. I have seen a few #1 top main scuffed from factory tolerances and blowers.the gt500 uses the 50w oil to give it that cushion.
 

AutoXRacer

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Update...

Dropped off two bearing sets to the builder. Seems like he had to use both sets to achieve 0.0025" clearance.

Currently my crank, balancer, flywheel, and clutch are at a balancing facility getting balanced. Should be done today and back in the builder's hands.

I should (hopefully) get the parts back next week.

Then I have 4 weeks to get it all put back together, tuned, broken in, and ready for a July 17th track day...

I'm not sure I'll make it... AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
 

AutoXRacer

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LOL
No, I rather miss the event and assemble everything correctly...than rush and have parts fall off... lol

The things I am worried about is the degreeing the cams. It will be my first time doing this.
Instructions seem complicated, Youtube videos make it look easy. We'll find out. lol

I still have to figure out my whole catch can situation...where to mount these huge canisters.

And then, there is the fuel line/rail mods...
 
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BMR Tech

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Currently my crank, balancer, flywheel, and clutch are at a balancing facility getting balanced. Should be done today and back in the builder's hands.

Wait, what?

The Modular engine is internally balanced. The only items that you should need for balancing, is the rotating assembly - unless I missed something in this thread??
 

one eyed willy

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Wait, what?

The Modular engine is internally balanced. The only items that you should need for balancing, is the rotating assembly - unless I missed something in this thread??

I agree, "if" your balancing the entire assembly as one then as your clutch wears or ever needs replaced you will have to rebalance the entire thing which means rebuilding your engine every time you change a clutch....all those componants are balanced (or should be) individually when you receive them.
 

BMR Tech

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^ I am hoping that the shop is balancing out everything separately.

Which....is a really good idea, instead of relying on the original manufacture to get it perfect. I don't, or would never really do that....but it's not a bad idea.

Typically though, when I see someone say they are taking all those items in for balancing, it means they are having it all balanced together - which is a big no-no for a Modular engine / set-up, IMO.
 

AutoXRacer

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According to the balancing guy, he is going to balance the crank, then the balancer, flywheel, and clutch assembly (pressure plate only; no discs).

So the rotating assembly will be balanced to itself...then balance the balancer and flywheel/clutch assembly. So the whole thing will be perfectly balanced...if you change out any components (balancer, flywheel, etc) then the system will be off balance, but not significant to cause any issues; it will still be light-years better balanced than a stock motor.

He said he doesn't balance balancers, flywheels, etc on circle track motors since they are always replacing parts in between races. But on a street motor which the parts will most likely stay the same for several thousands of miles, its preferred to balance the whole enchilada. He said you can replace clutch discs as those don't get balanced...but pressure plates, flywheels, and such are typically pretty consistent in weight.

Balancing is critical to motors that will see track time and sustained high RPMs.


So basically he does not want the crank to correct any imbalances due to the balancer and flywheel/clutch.

Does that make sense...?
I got worried too yesterday when I heard my stuff was getting balanced. They are checking rotational balance and front to back balance...from my understanding.

So far he commented that the Kellogg crank is very well balanced. He then added the Innovators West balancer and the whole thing stayed balanced. We'll see what happens when he add the flywheel. Should be balanced as all these parts should be well balanced individually.

I've been surprised because this whole build with the local engine builder, he has been building this thing like its a $100K race motor. I'm learning a lot... And here I thought we could just slap parts together. lol
 
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BMR Tech

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^ The best way to do it, is to zero balance everything.

So, the engine assembly would be "internally" balanced, and the items which attach externally, would be "zero" balanced.

If he is going to externally balance your set-up, I would kindly decline.

I understand what you are saying, but, ford went to internally balancing components for a reason - increased durability and increased RPM potential (they went internal when they went to the higher revving modular platform)

I hope it all works out well for you. Personally, I would stick with the balancing technique that the OEM engineers decided to use on 7,000+rpm OEM engines.
 

AutoXRacer

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Hmm...maybe I explained myself incorrectly...

Thats what he is doing... Zero balancing everything.

He verified the crank to make sure it was balanced...then added the IW balancer and verified the balance of the crank, and finally added the flywheel and pressure plate and sees if it remains in balance. If the flywheel or pressure plate cause an imbalance, then he will "balance" that individual part until the whole assembly is inert.

Basically the crank should not be exposed to (or expected to adsorb) an imbalanced part.

Is that matching what you are saying Kelly?
 

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