2011, Which rear lower control arms?

[Department Of Boost]

Whiteline

Have you driven on them yet?

 

[Department Of Boost]

My take on forum advice (I’ve posted this before elsewhere):

Be careful taking advice from people who “like what they have”. In a lot of cases what they have is the only stuff they have experience with. Being better than stock isn’t a hard feat.

Additionally most people are not capable of driving their car nearly hard enough to have an opinion on the suspensions quality, setup, performance, etc.

I see the same thing with supercharger, turbo’s, etc. Ask a person who has one what they think and they will tell you that they love it. Well, DUH! Even the weakest power adder is light-years better than stock. But if they have not driven, worked on, lived with multiple different power adders all they are really able to tell you is that their power adder is better than stock. Again, DUH!

And lastly it is human nature to like what you have. I always take “I have one and love it” with a grain of salt. Most people only have experience with that one example and most importantly consciously or subconsciously people will always be a cheering section for the stuff they spent their hard earned money on. People do not want to admit to themselves, and especially other people that they may have spent their money on the wrong stuff. How often do you hear “I bought XXXXX part and wasted my money”? Not very much. How often do you hear “I love my XXXXX widgets!!!!!”? All the time.

The best people to take advice from are the ones with experience with multiple combinations and are not afraid to say that they may have spent money incorrectly in the past. Oh, and they had better be able to drive too.

 

[Roadracer350]

Not mine yet. I drove a friends car at Hallett that I talked him into doing the Whiteline Control arms, relocation brackets and rear bar. Feels like the car is better planted and NO wheel hop at all. You still get a small amount of skip over the bumps but nothing like the stock mess. no noise and no oversteer unless you want it. I can't wait to start my build! Oh and all he has is stock shocks n struts, stock front n rear sways, 1" lowering springs and Whiteline rear arms, relocation brackets and panhard bar. It's an 07 blue GT with a 5speed n 3:55 rear on stock brakes. I did have to buy him new brake pads after tho.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Not mine yet. I drove a friends car at Hallett that I talked him into doing the Whiteline Control arms, relocation brackets and rear bar. Feels like the car is better planted and NO wheel hop at all. You still get a small amount of skip over the bumps but nothing like the stock mess. no noise and no oversteer unless you want it. I can't wait to start my build! Oh and all he has is stock shocks n struts, stock front n rear sways, 1" lowering springs and Whiteline rear arms, relocation brackets and panhard bar. It's an 07 blue GT with a 5speed n 3:55 rear on stock brakes. I did have to buy him new brake pads after tho.

What other arms have you run?

 

[Roadracer350]

Of corse the stock ones. I have BMR on my 06 and a friend that has a full track car has a set that has rod ends on them. They are great for the track but are rough as hell for the street and very loud. Which ones have you driven on?

 

[06underme]

My thing is it is my daily driver but i will autox every month and do 3 or 4 road race courses a year. So i would prefer it to not be incredibly loud.

 

[Roadracer350]

The BMRs that I have are good but a little squeaky every now and then. Not often. The Whitelines that I drove had no noise at all and seems a little beefy compared to the BMR. Not sure what brand randy was running but they were VERY loud and rough. They had rod ends on both ends and were bigger than the Whiteline units. People like Terry, Gmitch, Steve Poe etc will know better they have rode on a LOT more.

 

[Department Of Boost]

My thing is it is my daily driver but i will autox every month and do 3 or 4 road race courses a year. So i would prefer it to not be incredibly loud.

The J&M Extreme units work like a rod end LCA but without the noise. Mine are SILENT. There are a lot of LCA options out there, and I have not tried them all. I have not driven on the Whiteline for example.

It’s hard to beat the J&M’s though.

-Rod end style bushings

-No binding

-Predictable

-Durable

-Rebuild able

-Inexpensive

You may be able to find LCA’s for you intended use that are as good. But I doubt you will find some better.

 

[908ssp]

Any worthwhile lower control arm should have some ability to rotate, they all swing. I suppose if you always drive in a straight line it won't matter but when cornering any added stiffness imparted by the LCAs is not compensated for by the shocks, is not linear, and can contribute to tires breaking away rather than sticking.

 

[Sharad]

Three part answer:

1. My suggestion for a good (best?) all around S197 LCA:

http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-chrome-moly-solid-lower-control-arms-urethane-bushing-05.html

^^They're Made in America, they carry a Lifetime Guarantee, they're very durable, and they work well.

2. No bind, racing LCAs:

http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-pro-series-double-adjustable-lower-control-arms-hd-rear-05.html

Also Made in America, Lifetime Guarantee, work extremely well, but you get more NVH.

3. For autocross? Pretty sure you have to run C Prepared if you upgrade your LCAs. That's basically a racecar class.

 

[Sky Render]

Mustangs don't run in C prepared. You're looking at ESP class. If you have relocation brackets, you're bumped up to Street Mod.

Screw SCCA classing.

 

[Norm Peterson]

C-Prepared is exactly where your Mustang goes from ESP if your mod isn't SM-legal (but doesn't run you all the way to E-Mod). Relocating the LCA axle side pivots is not SM-legal (16.1.E).

Actually, CP is a more even playing field than SM for a Mustang, since it's the traditional place for significantly modified pony cars and muscle cars. Too bad that the level of participation varies quite a bit at least regionally.



To the original topic, I'm running Currie LCAs and (still) the OE upper. The Currie is Johnny-jointed at one end and poly at the other. The Johnny joint is one of the earlier sphericals that are not all metal. I did do a couple of DIY tweaks to the poly end to add a little rotational flexibility prior to installing them, so I can't speak for their silence unmodified like I can post-mod. Keep them lubed, as there is a clearly noticeable difference in both ride quality and handling apparently based on the amount of stiction present. http://scandc.com/new/node/649


Just about any compliant bushing material gets progressively stiffer the further it is distorted, which suggests that for the last bit of roll, power application, or attempt to stay out on the friction ellipse there is less margin (and less warning) that it's about to let go in a big way.


Norm

 

[Sky Render]

C-Prepared is exactly where your Mustang goes from ESP if your mod isn't SM-legal (but doesn't run you all the way to E-Mod). Relocating the LCA axle side pivots is not SM-legal (16.1.E).

Actually, CP is a more even playing field than SM for a Mustang, since it's the traditional place for significantly modified pony cars and muscle cars. Too bad that the level of participation varies quite a bit at least regionally.

And this is why I hate SCCA rules. They are ludicrously confusing and make no sense. I can't legally run in any class with relocated control arms?

 

[Roadracer350]

I am wondering what class I will be able to run on full Whiteline suspension, Coils and full aero?

 

[Whiskey11]

And this is why I hate SCCA rules. They are ludicrously confusing and make no sense. I can't legally run in any class with relocated control arms?

C-Prepared allows relocating the LCA's among other mods. You should really read the rules for CP sometime. I will warn you though, this is your competition in CP:

You could certainly torture the suspension rules in SM to allow relocation brackets as well. I say that because the rules say "if it moves during suspension travel it is free" and technically, a live axle moves during suspension travel so anything attached to it could also be considered "free". I would argue that this is akin to running taller ball joints more than relocating chassis pickup points since you aren't modifying chassis pickup points. Taller ball joints are SM legal.

I am wondering what class I will be able to run on full Whiteline suspension, Coils and full aero?

Well... depending on what mods you've done it will either be SM or Modified... I want to say E-Modified. I would pray for SM if you haven't done too much drastic work and relocated control arm mounting points to the chassis I could easily see SM. Otherwise, Modified you go since I think you can only run spoilers and not wings in CP.

 

[Roadracer350]

FR500S aero, FULL Whiteline out back including Watts, FULL Whiteline front with "X" brace, BC Coils, CHE Torque Limiters, Brembos, 14"Slotted rotors, 4" 1 piece drive shaft, APR Rear Diffuser, 18x10s, 295/35-18 A6. Do I need to include the cage and quick disconnect Steering wheel?

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I am looking at whiteline and UMI. I dont know which to go with. I also look at steedas billet set but they are twice the price but i imagine a little lighter. So, my questions. What is the best of the rear lower control arms to go with sence I autcross? I will be using a relocation bracket as well. Thank you.

Well if you plan on running autocrossing with the SCCA... you cannot change the rear LCAs in Stock (aka: Street), Street Touring or Street Prepared. You'd be bumped straight to Street Modified (which allows all SORTS of suspension and drivetrain mods, so be ready for some serious competition) or C Prepared (a place for gutted race cars on giant slicks, with some very goofy rules)

That's where our car ends up in SCCA right now - Street Modified. We ran an autocross last weekend with our local Texas Region in this very class, and it was brutal. There are some stupid fast cars in SM in many regions of the country, especially at Nationals. I've worked with 2 different winners of SM at previous Solo Nats and neither car remotely resembled a street car. I got lucky and won by a couple of tenths, but to be competitive there we would be replacing the metal hood and trunk with carbon fiber, making all bushings spherical, and doing a fully built race engine or adding a power adder like a turbo or supercharger. All of that is allowed in SM... so watch out what you wish for.

Now in SP and ST classes you can change the UPPER rear control arm, and even go to a custom spherical mount and weld/cut on the body. But the lower rear arms have to remain stock. And you can't do LCA relocation brackets, and most brands of Watts Links are illegal. Why? Well... if I explained it to you your brain may explode. There is no why in the SCCA, you just stick the car where they say it belongs this week.

Of course, as the poster boy for Whiteline, what LCA do you think I am going to recommend? But I prefer the Whiteline adjustable LCAs with their elastomer bushings because they have held up to the abuses we've thrown at the car on track, on the street and in many autocrosses. We've put a lot of hard miles on their LCAs without a squeak or issue. Adjustable lower arms allow you to adjust for pinion angle on lowered cars and get rid of a big, pliable rubber bushing in the suspension load path, too. They do have merit.

Is it silly that solid rear axle cars cannot change the LCAs or add LCA brackets? Of course it is! I've been asking people that are SCCA members to WRITE THOSE LETTERS (linked here) asking for these to be allowed, for years. Whenever you lower a Mustang the suspension geometry gets all wonky, and/or there are other aspects that need to be altered at the same time, including:

• An adjustable Panhard bar or Watts Link. When the suspension is lowered the fixed length stock Panhard bar will then be too long and the axle will sit offset relative to the chassis. One tire will be closer to the fender than the other, usually by 1/2" or more. A shortened Panhard bar or a Watts Link will realign the axle to the car.
• Rear Relocation Brackets. A lowered S197 makes the rear suspension geometry all jacked up, with massive anti-squat. Lowering the rearmost pick-up point returns the LCAs to level.
• Camber plates. If you are going to the trouble of adding lowering springs, adding camber plates involves almost zero extra work. And adding negative camber saves your front tires and increases grip - it is just part of the equation.
• Adjustable rear control arm. Lowering the rear changes the pinion angle, and you need to adjust for that either at the top arm (UCA) or the bottom arms (LCAs).

Again, if you are wanting to run in the more common STX/STU or ESP classes, then don't change the lower arms. Get an adjustable upper arm to compensate for the pinion angle change on a lowered car, instead. It sucks, but thems the rules. As much as I'd love to sell you "one of everything", we will always steer people to the right parts for the classes they run, before trying to make a sale on the wrong parts.

Cheers,

 

[Sky Render]

Bah, I should just go for broke and bolt the 650-horsepower Ford Racing Whipple kit on my engine.

 

[Godzirra]

You can get the steeda adjustables from roushperformance's eBay store for anywhere between $100-$150 depending on bushings wanted. They have a decent over stock. It's who I got my solid bushing ones from

 

[Roadracer350]

So Terry basically your saying if I run in SCCA i'm FUBAR?