Anybody good at diagnosing data logs??

[Seer]

What's the lambse? It must not be afr in lambda like I thought.

afr bank 1 and 2 are the wwideband actuals

 

[lee12609]

Unplug both front o2 sensors, crank car, if miss at idle is gone you found the problem. The pcm will use its default fuel tables with them unplugged.

I'm not believing they are not reporting or you'd get a code nearly instantly and with a code it would run default fuel tables which will run the car fine.

You could have a million things causing the issue why not just take it in.

 

[slvr08gt]

Unplug both front o2 sensors, crank car, if miss at idle is gone you found the problem. The pcm will use its default fuel tables with them unplugged.

I'm not believing they are not reporting or you'd get a code nearly instantly and with a code it would run default fuel tables which will run the car fine.

You could have a million things causing the issue why not just take it in.

I was recently tuned and returned it back to stock. The car has only been running on the stock tune for about 4 days. If I take it in to the dealer right now, they will see the low clock count on the PCM and start digging deeper in to why its running the way it is. Im trying to get as many start cycles on the car as possible before I have to take it in.

Will this work or not with the dealer? More then likely not, but its worth a try.

Just curious. If my front o2 sensors are done for, wouldn't my car be pretty much undriveable?

My car right now runs decent but it feels just a little down on power and has a nasty horrible idle. Other than that its runs ok.

-Nick

 

[BruceH]

I was recently tuned and returned it back to stock. The car has only been running on the stock tune for about 4 days. If I take it in to the dealer right now, they will see the low clock count on the PCM and start digging deeper in to why its running the way it is. Im trying to get as many start cycles on the car as possible before I have to take it in.

Will this work or not with the dealer? More then likely not, but its worth a try.

Just curious. If my front o2 sensors are done for, wouldn't my car be pretty much undriveable?

My car right now runs decent but it feels just a little down on power and has a nasty horrible idle. Other than that its runs ok.

-Nick

Ford can tell if you have ever had a tune in a 5.0. They used it to deny warranty on #8 failures a few years ago.

It still sounds like a vacuum leak.

 

[lee12609]

I have no clue about ford and flashing and all that mess but least you would have a fix out of pocket or not.

Did you unplug them and drive it yet?

 

[Seer]

Unplug both front o2 sensors, crank car, if miss at idle is gone you found the problem. The pcm will use its default fuel tables with them unplugged.

I'm not believing they are not reporting or you'd get a code nearly instantly and with a code it would run default fuel tables which will run the car fine.

You could have a million things causing the issue why not just take it in.

I don't think this is the case for the 2011+, the 2011+ front o2's are widebands, it uses them to trim off of. The car never leaves closed loop. If they are not working the vehicle goes haywire.

 

[slvr08gt]

I have no clue about ford and flashing and all that mess but least you would have a fix out of pocket or not.

Did you unplug them and drive it yet?

Still at work. Will try unplugging them when I get home in a few hours if its not raining still. Either way, I already ordered a new set of front o2's from rockauto. Had them shipped next day express so I should have them Thursday morning.

 

[slvr08gt]

Ford can tell if you have ever had a tune in a 5.0. They used it to deny warranty on #8 failures a few years ago.

It still sounds like a vacuum leak.

I would be extremely surprised if it turns out to be a vacuum leak. It still wouldnt explain why its running rich as hell. A vacuum leak would definetly be a cheap fix though.

 

[BruceH]

I would be extremely surprised if it turns out to be a vacuum leak. It still wouldnt explain why its running rich as hell. A vacuum leak would definetly be a cheap fix though.

For some reason the ecu thinks it's running at stoich. That's why the fuel trims look good at idle.

The trims are also in sync with lambse so they are related. Lambse goes a little rich and the corresponding st trim takes fuel out, etc.

This is something that happens with 3v motors. I have no idea if it's even possible on a 5.0 but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Is there any chance the o2 wires got swapped side to side during all the things that went on?

 

[slvr08gt]

For some reason the ecu thinks it's running at stoich. That's why the fuel trims look good at idle.

The trims are also in sync with lambse so they are related. Lambse goes a little rich and the corresponding st trim takes fuel out, etc.

This is something that happens with 3v motors. I have no idea if it's even possible on a 5.0 but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Is there any chance the o2 wires got swapped side to side during all the things that went on?

The only o2 sensor that was ever unplugged was the rear passenger o2 sensor. Is was removed while I had my wideband installed. My rear o2 sensors were turned off in the tune do to the O/R midpipe.

Other than that, none of the other o2 sensors were moved or unclipped. Especially the fronts.

 

[lee12609]

I don't think this is the case for the 2011+, the 2011+ front o2's are widebands, it uses them to trim off of. The car never leaves closed loop. If they are not working the vehicle goes haywire.

you may be correct, i have no dealings with the 11+ however every obd2 pcm strategy i've worked on works on default maps + strategy tuning via input sensors.

it used to be check engine light equaled open loop, most newer vehicles its not, its closed loop-error mode (diff manufacturers call it different things). No manufacturer would design the PCM strategy to disable vehicle function during an o2 (wideband or narrow) failure, so i'm sure there is still a default fuel map that is used as a basis for fuel corrections.

if the o2 sensors in the car are giving false readings it WILL cause all sorts of problems, like you state, but not reporting at all shouldnt cause any immediate driveability problems.

if the vehicle is simple bolt on only i would drive it like this without a worry for diagnostics sake.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

As a dealer tech. I wouldn't dig into it. And I'm don't think IDS can even pick that up. If it can. I never tried and ford has no TSB to look at that. Only for the p1000 code. I would just take it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Seer]

you may be correct, i have no dealings with the 11+ however every obd2 pcm strategy i've worked on works on default maps + strategy tuning via input sensors.

it used to be check engine light equaled open loop, most newer vehicles its not, its closed loop-error mode (diff manufacturers call it different things). No manufacturer would design the PCM strategy to disable vehicle function during an o2 (wideband or narrow) failure, so i'm sure there is still a default fuel map that is used as a basis for fuel corrections.

if the o2 sensors in the car are giving false readings it WILL cause all sorts of problems, like you state, but not reporting at all shouldnt cause any immediate driveability problems.

if the vehicle is simple bolt on only i would drive it like this without a worry for diagnostics sake.

the car doesnt go open loop. The car used to be turbocharged and it was blowing oil through the turbos. I feel the sensors went bad

 

[cshiznitzj]

O2 sensors are 90 bucks at rock auto and similar priced at Tousely... I would check them prior to taking to dealer. These o2 sensors seem to be very sensitive, I have also been a victim of losing o2 with longtubes and e85.

 

[slvr08gt]

the car doesnt go open loop. The car used to be turbocharged and it was blowing oil through the turbos. I feel the sensors went bad

Hoping your right.

O2 sensors are 90 bucks at rock auto and similar priced at Tousely... I would check them prior to taking to dealer. These o2 sensors seem to be very sensitive, I have also been a victim of losing o2 with longtubes and e85.

Ordered them earlier today from rock auto. Should have them by Thursday.

 

[lee12609]

the car doesnt go open loop. The car used to be turbocharged and it was blowing oil through the turbos. I feel the sensors went bad

Didn't know that it was eating oil prior.

All I'm saying is IF its the oxygen sensors and its close to stock then unplugging them would eliminate or verify them as the problem as they would no longer be giving data to the pcm.

 

[Seer]

Didn't know that it was eating oil prior.

All I'm saying is IF its the oxygen sensors and its close to stock then unplugging them would eliminate or verify them as the problem as they would no longer be giving data to the pcm.

Look at the logs, the front widebands are not reporting any data. These cars do not go into open loop, they use their front widebands to trim from, they always remain in closed loop.

 

[slvr08gt]

Look at the logs, the front widebands are not reporting any data. These cars do not go into open loop, they use their front widebands to trim from, they always remain in closed loop.

Jay do you happen to have any logs showing that parameter showing readings at idle?

I just had a buddy do a idle log in his 5.0. His showed readings but his parameter was titled "afr bank 1 measured". He couldn't locate the parameter that only read "afr bank 1" without it saying measured after it. Is his parameter the same as mine that's not reporting?

 

[Seer]

Jay do you happen to have any logs showing that parameter showing readings at idle?

I just had a buddy do a idle log in his 5.0. His showed readings but his parameter was titled "afr bank 1 measured". He couldn't locate the parameter that only read "afr bank 1" without it saying measured after it. Is his parameter the same as mine that's not reporting?

Thats the one, measured.

 

[slvr08gt]

Why doesn't mine say measured at the end of it? Seems odd