BBR Testing with Ford Racing Intake Manifold

[s8v4o]

See above post. Delete plates have to be considered if we're comparing apples to apples. The FRPP manifold doesn't have CMP's.

Sorry, I'm a little confused by what you meant. See above post for what? Also you gave me HP numbers for mods without data/dyno. How do you know the RWHP for each one of those mods? Also the delete plates don't have to be considered for his baseline because he didn't have them. I guess what you mean is the delete plates have to be taken into consideration for the "after" HP levels due to the fact that the manifold no longer uses them??

 

[s8v4o]

I had 5HP gain from my headers. They don't do much on a NA car.

^ exactly! when u already have an off road mid, headers dont really do much on a NA car. i got nothing from them.

WOW, I can't believe A LOT of people are shelling out 750-1000 bucks for 0-5HP lol. I thought I read an article in MM&FF where they did dyno testing on shorties and long tubes. They showed a power increase. I don't know man

 

[3vs197]

^ weird a magazine showed a power increase with mod? must be true then. sorta like 36whp gain with FRPP INTAKE!!! bbr has a dyno so it must be true? no, its bs just to sell a product.

 

[06silverbullet]

WOW, I can't believe A LOT of people are shelling out 750-1000 bucks for 0-5HP lol. I thought I read an article in MM&FF where they did dyno testing on shorties and long tubes. They showed a power increase. I don't know man

cams don't give you a ton of power unless you have the supporting mods exhaust and intake. same goes for a manifold. i wouldn't buy the frpp mainly cause it is plastic makes the car look cheap, not to mention the c&l manifold seems to be very good not to mention it gets rid of the charge motion plates. so if you think about it you can get the c&l for roughly 700 bucks and be done or you can buy the frpp plastic intake and buy charge motion deletes and pay closer to 800.

 

[s8v4o]

^ weird a magazine showed a power increase with mod? must be true then. sorta like 36whp gain with FRPP INTAKE!!! bbr has a dyno so it must be true? no, its bs just to sell a product.

Well not everything you read is BS, although some of it is. You take it all in and formulate your own conclusion. That same magazine also tested something like 5 different shorties and only found a 3-5HP gain. I hardly believe they're blowing smoke up peoples asses with those results.

 

[s8v4o]

cams don't give you a ton of power unless you have the supporting mods exhaust and intake. same goes for a manifold. i wouldn't buy the frpp mainly cause it is plastic makes the car look cheap, not to mention the c&l manifold seems to be very good not to mention it gets rid of the charge motion plates. so if you think about it you can get the c&l for roughly 700 bucks and be done or you can buy the frpp plastic intake and buy charge motion deletes and pay closer to 800.

I'm pretty sure the FRPP manifold deletes the plates just like the C&L.

 

[06silverbullet]

I'm pretty sure the FRPP manifold deletes the plates just like the C&L.

oh ok, i misunderstood that part then, my bad.

 

[TheKurgan]

I'm pretty sure the FRPP manifold deletes the plates just like the C&L.

Bottom line is that car should of put down 300rwhp without the manifold. You can search online and find hundreds of dyno sheets to prove it. Hell, I've seen email tunes with those mods put down 300.

Deleting the cats is where you see the gains on most long tube installs, but that's a whole other bench race.

 

[Fast64ranchero]

cams don't give you a ton of power unless you have the supporting mods exhaust and intake. you can buy the frpp plastic intake and buy charge motion deletes and pay closer to 800.[/QUOTE]
WTF are you talking about? I suggest you keep silent until you know what your talking about, the only thing you got correct is the fact cams need supporting mods to get the most from them, my car made 306hp with 127500's and ported big valve heads, I added kooks and a CAI and picked up 41 hp

 

[s8v4o]

Bottom line is that car should of put down 300rwhp without the manifold. You can search online and find hundreds of dyno sheets to prove it. Hell, I've seen email tunes with those mods put down 300.

Deleting the cats is where you see the gains on most long tube installs, but that's a whole other bench race.

I too have seen minimal mods putting down 300RWHP. But every car and every dyno is a little different. As of right now I only have a JLTII intake and a zex kit. I'm going to start from ground zero and add every good HP/$ mod at a time and document my results at the strip. I'll be taking into account DA, headwind, etc. I'll post my results as i get them. Ground zero so far has been a completely stock car running a 13.7 @ 101.6 2.1 60' with roughly a DA of 700 or 800, can't exactly remember. I need to go back to the track and test the CAI. Then I'll get an ORH pipe. Start from least expensive to more expensive and post my results as I go. I'll keep you guys posted!

 

[JeremyH]

I agree with the consensus something does seem odd with those dynographs. Although the baseline is spot on to me for the mods on an auto. In my area stock 3v automatics put down 245-255rwhp and manuals put down 260-270 stock.

My 07 manual put down 263rwhp stock and a cai/93 oct tune made 295rwhp.

And if you missed it heres my graph with the frpp intake and turbo had to let out as it went lean. Same day dyno. 100 degrees in the shop for the baseline and 110 degress for the frpp pull. You can see that there are gains throughout the curve not just above 4,000, although thats where it starts to shine. These pulls also threw high iat temp code and pulled timing due to the heat btw. Blue is baseline red is frpp. Even letting out there were gains of 32rwhp and 21rwtq. Hopefully I can get a good to day to go back soon and do some full pulls and retune. I can easily see this intake making peak gains of 40+rwhp with the turbo.

More info on my results here
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38981&highlight=turbo

 

[JeremyH]

im sorry i dont believe this at all. the FRPP is a shorter runner design and the power curves from the two are identical? and NO WAY the new intake is making more power @ 3000 rpms than the stocker. 267 baseline is weaksauce and everyone knows that. there most likely was no tune before before this intake or a very poor one at best. no one else is going to see numbers like these. what a joke.

Where did you get this shorter runner design thing from? The frpp manifold's runners are longer and taller than the stock manifold.

 

[TheKurgan]

I agree with the consensus something does seem odd with those dynographs. Although the baseline is spot on to me for the mods on an auto. In my area stock 3v automatics put down 245-255rwhp and manuals put down 260-270 stock.

My 07 manual put down 263rwhp stock and a cai/93 oct tune made 295rwhp.

And if you missed it heres my graph with the frpp intake and turbo had to let out as it went lean. Same day dyno. 100 degrees in the shop for the baseline and 110 degress for the frpp pull. You can see that there are gains throughout the curve not just above 4,000, although thats where it starts to shine. These pulls also threw high iat temp code and pulled timing due to the heat btw. Blue is baseline red is frpp. Even letting out there were gains of 32rwhp and 21rwtq. Hopefully I can get a good to day to go back soon and do some full pulls and retune. I can easily see this intake making peak gains of 40+rwhp with the turbo.


More info on my results here
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38981&highlight=turbo

Nice. I was following your thread for a while, but you gave too much advance notice before you did the pull so I quit reading it lol. Was the car dialed in on the dyno for the base pull before adding the manifold ?

 

[JeremyH]

LOL, What do you mean by dialed in?

 

[TheKurgan]

LOL, What do you mean by dialed in?

I mean was the tuner sure that the base pull had every bit of timing/air/fuel, etc to make the max HP before slapping on the manifold and making further adjustments ?

 

[Torch Red GT]

Was the car tuned after puting on the intake manifold?

 

[JeremyH]

I mean was the tuner sure that the base pull had every bit of timing/air/fuel, etc to make the max HP before slapping on the manifold and making further adjustments ?

All pulls were the current tune already in the car, 16 degrees total timing. After i swapped the manifold on the dyno there were no tune adjustments made for that pull. So they are untuned results. Every dyno pull that day pulled timing above 4500 rpm due to the heat in the shop. Details are in my thread. On the last pull Mike added some wot fuel because it was lean but the car was heat soaked (iats went to 130) so we called it a day. That pull still made more power than baseline.

 

[TheKurgan]

All pulls were the current tune already in the car. 16 degrees total timing. Every dyno pull that day pulled timing above 4500 rpm due to the heat in the shop. Details are in my thread. On the last pull Mike added a some wot fuel because it was lean but the car was heat soaked (iats went to 130) so we called it a day. That pull still made more power than baseline.

I mean that's nice info and all but it still doesn't prove(at least to me) that the manifold did anything at all. Some cars make more power with less timing so just saying the knock sensors pulled timing due to the heat doesn't give any sold analysis. What's needed for any real world proof is to tune the car for max HP on the final pull without the manifold, then put the manifold on and tune for the manifold.

Example: My car with FRPP cams makes more power with less timing than a stock GT's timing.

 

[JeremyH]

I mean that's nice info and all but it still doesn't prove(at least to me) that the manifold did anything at all. Some cars make more power with less timing so just saying the knock sensors pulled timing due to the heat doesn't give any sold analysis. What's needed for any real world proof is to tune the car for max HP on the final pull without the manifold, then put the manifold on and tune for the manifold.

Example: My car with FRPP cams makes more power with less timing than a stock GT's timing.

The gains were there before the computer pulled timing from high iat's. No tune adjsutments. Its an intake manifold, not cams..

Shit you cant get any more straight foward then what we did. Same day baselines, only change was the manifold done while it was on the dyno.

Not to mention the baselines were done at 100 degrees temp and frpp pulls were done at 110 degrees. If you would like to discuss more you can take it to my thread.

 

[Nickoli]

Yes, that is correct. The Automatic killed it.

I would agree. The 5r55s robs us of allot of power. I had my car tuned at the same place on the same dyno twice. The first time I was using the stock 5r55s and converter. the second time the only changes were delete plates, a built 4r70w w/ a pi converter and a 76mm turbo vs the 70mm that was on it the first time. The car made 150rwhp more at the same boost level!!!! Hell I even had big drag radials on it the second go vs hard low profile 20's the first time.