cage weld plates for future install

kevinatfms

EX-ford tech(6 years)
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Posts
1,780
Reaction score
9
Location
MD
great ideas, all passed along. car will be going in for a LONG list of changes this winter.

cage install
new exhaust
new dampers
new sways
body work/panel repaint
 

kevinatfms

EX-ford tech(6 years)
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Posts
1,780
Reaction score
9
Location
MD
barely street legal for now. will just be a track toy since the little hyundai is now my full time DD.

i may still pick the kit up and hold on to it for when i do take the car off the road.
 

SoundGuyDave

This Space For Rent
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Posts
1,978
Reaction score
29
Just as an FYI, I think there may be better options for weight loss than the Lexan, at least in back. The rear window glass really just doesn't weigh anything worth talking about. Even the front windshield isn't all that heavy, and at least with glass, you have no tear-off hassles, worry about scratching/scuffing/sandblasting, etc.

If you're shooting for 3000lbs wet, then yeah, you'll have to go there, but you can get down to around 3300 wet and caged with no real effort.

Stock, with automatic trans: 3719
In TTB trim, stick, minor weight reduction: 3456
In TTA trim, fairly gutted: 3263
In E0 (Enduro) trim, gutted and caged: 3308

And I know where to find another 50lbs or so...
All weights are wet, with driver, 1/2 tank fuel.

I owe you some pix, and they are coming... Just waiting for a break in the weather to pull the car out of the trailer.
 

kevinatfms

EX-ford tech(6 years)
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Posts
1,780
Reaction score
9
Location
MD
since the car isnt really a competition car im not shooting for any real numbers. more of just a open track car and drivers events for me. im not very competitive.

as for the weights, what is considered a gutted car? im at the point now where a small water leak has got me about to remove everything from the front seats back for good. leak is fixed just dont want to deal with buying carpet, headliner, new rear padding and such. was thinking since its getting a basic 8 point bar to just gut most of the things i dont need. car has been totalled twice so not really ever going to get rid of it. i know carpet and mouldings from the front seats back will be gone but will keep the center console housing to keep some asthetics.

i know the rear windscreen has some weight to it over the lexan(15-20#'s). i would keep the front windshield glass but the side 3/4 windows and rear glass would come out for the lexan and lexan supports. for the price of the glass kit that i am being offered i am willing to grab it and then sell it down the line if i dont end up using it for my own car.
 

kevinatfms

EX-ford tech(6 years)
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Posts
1,780
Reaction score
9
Location
MD
one more question, for those of you with roll bars, at the rear attachment points for the rear bars to the shock towers. did you weld the tubes a cross brace or to the tower itself? it seems that to be legal they need to be welded to the tower itself as it ties in as a structural member of the main hoop?

can anyone confirm this yes?
 

SoundGuyDave

This Space For Rent
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Posts
1,978
Reaction score
29
Gutting: With mine, obviously, all the interior trim is gone, but I did retain the complete stock dash. The console (around the shifter, plus the armrest) isn't all that light, and I don't think there's much you could hack out of it to pull weight, either.

EVERYTHING that was bolted into the interior that isn't required for operation of the car is gone... Parking brake, seat belts, etc. were all removed. I cut the package shelf out of the rear, but left the crossbrace on advice I got from Poe, but I did hole-saw that. Behind the dash, there is... air. I gutted the glovebox lid, pulled the cover off the passenger-side airbag module, so for aesthetics, I took about a 1.5lb hit. All the HVAC stuff is gone, firewall holes plugged/plated-over, etc. I used an FR500S chassis harness, and custom-decontented the dashboard harness, probably pulled 5lbs of wire and misc connectors out of it. Lightweight battery in the stock location, custom power distribuition with nothing heavier than 4ga wire, and limited amounts of that, as well. For further weight reduction for me, it would be a K-member, cutting the spare tire well out, and de-contenting the remaining factory wiring harnesses. I could cut out the rear parcel-shelf brace, and start trimming metal here and there, but I would prefer not to. I'm built to the AI rule-set, so there is no actual weight target, just a power-to-weight ratio to hit.

Rear bar attachment points: Both the Autopower and the Maximum Motorsports 4-point bars bolt to the inner wheelwell, not the frame or shock tower. IF you're doing a custom cage (strongly recommended!), then the sky's the limit. My rear stay mounting plates are on the frame horizontally, and wrap up vertically around the front half of the shock "towers," and have a cross-bar between them. The tubes themselves land on the plates, and the crossbar spans the tubes, roughly 3/4" above the level of the tub, to allow for wire passage. For safety's sake, I would opt NOT to span the rear shock towers with a bar, and then land the backstays on that. Depending on how you read the NASA CCR, that kind of setup could be deemed illegal.

Steve Poe uses an interesting setup as an alternative... He builds a plinth box around the shock mount, holesaws the top for shock access, then lands the tubes on the faces of the box.

Things I would think about if I were you, in terms of cage design:

1) Landing point location: You want to create a cocoon around you with the cage. Put your A-pillar bar points as far forward into the footwell as you can, and realize that you can take full advantage of the vertical wall surface there! There's no reason at all that you can't shape the SIDE of the tube at the plate to clear bumps and protrusions in the kick panels, and weld directly to the walls, IN ADDITION to the required plate on the floor area. For the main hoop, land it on the main crossbeam under the rear seats. Hugely strong, and that puts it in a place where it won't impact the door aperature (see note #3!). Unless you can think of a reason not to (possible class rules, etc.) think about welding plates directly between the main hoop and the walls of the chassis, then hole-saw them for weight reduction. Gusseting like this REALLY locks the cage into the chassis, and minimizes the possibility of the chassis collapsing around the cage structure.

3) Door openings: Do your design with an eye towards keeping easy entry and exit. You'll need to do some personal risk assessment here, and balance between intrusion protection and on-fire exit time. Ideally, from a crash-intrusion standpoint, you'd have bars all the way up to the window opening, so that if somebody T-bones you right in the door, you have a LOT of steel keeping their engine out of your lap. From a fire standpoint, you don't want ANY door bars! The more in your way, and the more bending, twisting and slithering you have to do to get out, the longer it will take. Personally, I leaned more towards the fire scenario. My door bars were put in at a pretty steep angle, but from a flat, side impact scenario, they cover me pretty well. Also, the doors in the S197 are VERY wide, so you may want to think about adding an additional mount point to support part of the span and give it extra rigidity.

4) Extra bars: Think about what the "basic" cage will and will not protect against, and where the weak areas are, and consider adding extra bars to the design. As was menioned previously, footwell intrusion bars are a great idea. I also opted for an FIA bar running between the A-pillar tube and the top of the door bars, lined up directly with the extra bottom mount point for a solid load-path. This was done primarily with an eye toward rollover protection, helping to prevent the roof from crushing downward. Triangles are strong, rectangles not so much, so wherever you have a rectangle, try to make triangles out of it. I added gusset bars between the main hoop and the halo, as well as between the A-pillar tube and the windshield bar. I also added the diagonal in the rear stays, pretty well visually lined up with the main hoop diagonal for reduced vision impact.

Here's what the door area looks like:

SAM_0279.jpg


You can see the FIA bar, the extra mounting point, and the gusset bar pretty plainly. That design does have some drawbacks, but they're (hopefully) very-low-percentage scenarios. Airborne car, on the way down, lands in the window opening: FIA bar isn't in tension or compression, so it will buckle, and that leaves a pretty large opening for parts to come in. I'm more concerned, personally, about fire, though, and I can be out of this car in under seven seconds with that setup. In just about any "normal" crash scenario, I feel pretty safe in this cage.

I'll try to grab pix of the rear landing plates when I can.
 
Back
Top