Camshaft Position Sensor DTC

StephenEbling

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Hey guys,

I am encountering an issue with the notorious P0345/P0349 camshaft position sensor.

So far I have:

Replaced the sensor
Rewired the connector
Replaced the alternator

The DTC came back just as it was prior.

I filled a troubleshooting method which had me check the ground wire in the connector.

Bank 1 shows a solid ground, bank 2 does not.

Bank 2 is where the issue is...

As far as I know, the engine runs fine, idles fine, and appears like all is well besides the DTC.

I wanted to check the wiring coming from the PCM but I cannot find where this sensor connects.

What should I do next?
1
 

StephenEbling

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I understand that this could possibly be a bad chassis ground somewhere? Does anyone know where this grounds to the chassis so I can check that ground?
 

46addict

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I'm having the same problem so let me know what you find. There is an engine ground that goes to the passenger side engine mount area but I don't know if that is your issue.

What do you mean when you say you rewired the connector? Did you replace the pigtail?
 

StephenEbling

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What do you mean when you say you rewired the connector? Did you replace the pigtail?

Correct, you can order an OEM or Aftermarket camshaft position sensor connector (pigtail) and solder it in.

I tested the ground at the connector as well as before the connector (where I soldered it) and the ground is not testing successfully.
 

redfirepearlgt

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There are some grounds on the PCM that you may wish to check. C175B pins 47,48,49,50, are grounded at G103. C175B pin 10 is grounded at G102. These may or may not be related to your grounding concern. Looking at the prints you will see that each sensor received its 12vdc source from a common distribution point S102 which also supplies voltage to the front O2 sensors and IAT sensor. PCM connector pins C175E pins 44,45 (Orange and DBlue/orange color codes respectively) are the inputs the sensors feed into. The variable resistor inside the sensor alters the voltage fed to the feedback input to the PCM which is monitoring for VCT position.

The cam solenoids are controlled by PCM output pins C175B 67,68 (violet/L Blue and D green/orange). The PCM sinks the signal internally via a variable duty cycle signal to maintain the commanded cam position when the system is active. The 12V source voltage for each solenoid comes from S101 which is also supplying voltage source for the heaters in the front and rear O2 sensors and other devices.

I would suggest swapping the solenoids to see if the problem follows that. If the problem remains on bank two, then the other possible thing to consider is that the Cam phaser is having issues getting the cam to the desired position mechanically.

Here is the link on VCT theory of operation. Read it. It helps to understand what is happening to be able to troubleshoot. http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=7&f=Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) System.pdf&p=1
 

redfirepearlgt

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Was using the on line manuals while I was at work. Verifying with my paper manual for the 2005 at home shows G103 as a direct wiring point from C175B - 10 toG103 ground having no splice as in the electronic drawings on page 10-1. It is referenced in two places within the schems - Pg 23-4, and 24-4. G102 on page 10-3 in the paper manual verifies that it goes from its grounding point to Splice point S115 tying the four pins on the ECM together. Also landed at this splice point are two other grounds for the datalink, and a common connecting wire that carries that ground on to S108 which provides ground for the MAF, a shield for the crank trigger, and ground for the IMRC module. The reference in the upper left page of 10-3 is showing that the IMRC is an addition to the wiring for 4.6L GT models.

In the paper manual on page 152-14; G102 location is engine compartment right side (E3) for both models. G103 is also referenced to be located engine compartment right side (E3). Where the locations are different such as G106 it specifies each in my paper version which is a slightly different revision than of the on line schems. According to cell 151-2 both grounds will be located somewhere close to the ECM unit. From the front of the car this would be front left corner. The manuals always reference from the drivers seat.
 
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StephenEbling

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Would there be any danger in taking a small alligator clip and manually grounding the ground pin of the connector to the battery to test if that is the only issue?

If it is, theoretically couldn't I just run an extra ground to a chassis ground by splicing in?
 

StephenEbling

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Ultimately, I'm not sure what to do with this information.

I've taken a look at the grounds and everything looks fine. Bank 1 shows a solid ground but Bank 2 doesnt.

The wires are bundled in a way that I'm not comfortable taking it apart and I've cleaned up the grounds with a wire wheel to no avail.

I want to fix it right but yet I dont want to replace the entire harness. I ultimately would like to fix it myself if possible and if all it needs is a solid ground, I can cleanly run a good ground wire to a remaining chassis ground to solve it (if that would in fact solve the issue).
 

redfirepearlgt

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If you are inferring if it would be okay for troubleshooting purposes to run a wire directly from the negative post of the battery to either G102 or G103 or C175B - 10, 47,48,49,50 individually; yes that would be acceptable troubleshooting. Do so with care. I would not attempt to make a direct connection to any of the sensors or solenoids in any way.

A more proper method however would be to check resistance from the negative cable on the battery to G102 and G103, and then check from G102, G103 chassis ground points to each pin on C175B using a multimeter via continuity or resistance check. Obviously this would be done with the negative terminal of the battery disconnected and C175B also disconnected from the PCM so that the wires are all isolated.

Don't forget to check for corrosion on the grounding points at G102, G103 where they make to chassis ground. Clean accordingly.
 

redfirepearlgt

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I provided you with ground information because you believed you had a grounding problem (open to chassis ground) on the bank two side however that was determined. You never eluded to your method so I assumed since the car was running engine to ground was not an issue as spark has a completed path to ground. That eliminates the engine block concern theoretically. That left individual grounds.

If you don't have the means to troubleshoot to eliminate the electrical concern, then you are kind've stuck.
 

StephenEbling

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The car is running and doesnt seem to have any issues other than the check engine light throwing codes for cam position sensor and cam position sensor intermittent

The reason I am thinking this is a ground issue is one of the sensor testing methods had me check the ground pin on the cam position sensor connector on both bank 1 and bank 2 and on bank 1 it shows good (continuity shows solid) for bank 1 but bank 2 shows no connection.
 

redfirepearlgt

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The sensor is a two wire device. One side receives 12vdc. The other side transmits high or low signal to the PCM input when triggered by the VCT timing wheel on the phaser. Any grounding is done through the PCM. So once again with regard to grounding you are back to the PCM. If you wish to check the sensor wiring, you can first check to see if it is receiving 12vdc from the gray/red stripe wire (assuming this matches your year car) for 12vdc with key on engine off. That would be pin 1 of C 1366 or C1367 depending on which sensor you are checking for proper voltage from the source. Both should have 12vdc on them at all times with key on engine off. Then on the other side which feeds the PCM you can check for continuity of the wire by disconnecting C175E at the PCM and back pinning C175E pin 44 (solid orange) back to C1367 pin 2 of bank 2 (driver side). Then with the the connectors still disconnected at both ends check the wire to chassis ground to insure it is not shorting to ground. If it is hunt down the short to ground and fix the damaged wire. If this reads continuity of less than 2 ohms the wire is good.

Something else to consider though it usually causes other issues as well would be the integrity of the Alternator output. With everything hooked up and the car running check across the battery and measure for AC voltage. If the voltmeter reads 50-100mvac or more you may have a failing alternator and this can cause issues on sensors in general that are sensitive to AC voltage. I recently came across an article that states that AC ripple measured across the battery (though the battery is a capacitor and will act as a filter which is why it is better to check ac ripple with car running and the alternator separated from the battery) that a presence of more than 50mvac may be enough to cause issues on modern vehicles. Remember that an alternator generates AC voltage which is then rectified through full rectification and filtering to create DC voltage.

If all of this checks out then you may be looking at there being an issue with the proportional control valve not being able to get the cam to the desired position when the VCT system goes closed loop and is active based on said conditions in the description of operation. If the proportional control valve checks good then you may be looking at a mechanical issue.
 

StephenEbling

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I will check the pins and test them to the connectors.

Do you buy chance have a pinout diagram for the PCM to reference the C175E wire?

As for the alternator - I just installed a new one 2 days ago to fix this (based off a similar article)
 

46addict

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Once the alternator, electrical connections, and the cam sensors themselves are ruled out, what is next on the diagnosis tree?
Is the crank position sensor referenced at all when the cam sensors signal the PCM? Looking at the wiring diagrams it appears the
cam and crank position sensors work independently from each other but I want to verify if that's true.

As for mechanical troubleshooting I suppose the things to look for are damaged reluctors on the cam phaser and worn followers. Though if this was the case I would think driveability would be affected.
 

redfirepearlgt

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I will check the pins and test them to the connectors.

Do you buy chance have a pinout diagram for the PCM to reference the C175E wire?

As for the alternator - I just installed a new one 2 days ago to fix this (based off a similar article)

I will look at the hard copy of prints at home to see if there is something in there. Those connectors are overwhelming.
 

redfirepearlgt

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Once the alternator, electrical connections, and the cam sensors themselves are ruled out, what is next on the diagnosis tree?
Is the crank position sensor referenced at all when the cam sensors signal the PCM? Looking at the wiring diagrams it appears the
cam and crank position sensors work independently from each other but I want to verify if that's true.

As for mechanical troubleshooting I suppose the things to look for are damaged reluctors on the cam phaser and worn followers. Though if this was the case I would think driveability would be affected.

I do not know. The theory of operation on the VCT does not include anything regarding the crank sensor. However I think I see where you are coming from should there be say slop in the timing chain which could alter the over all crank to cam position with respect to where it should be. How that would report and what possible code it would throw up I would have no idea.

I would like some enlightening on this angle of thought as well if someone knows.
 

StephenEbling

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Here is bank 1 (working)
20180713_211931.jpg

Here is bank 2 not working:
20180713_212010.jpg

Pin 45 on the connector doesnt match up with the color of the wire from the bank 2 sensor...

What pin should I be checking for bank 2?
 

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