Connect the wires O.O

justinsstang

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I'm using AEM. I spoke with SCT on the matter and they said use either one, analog 1 or 2. I just used analog 1 and connected it to the 0-5V Output wire from the wideband.

As far as grounds, you guys lost me forever ago.

I have the boost gauge and wideband grounded to a bolt on one side of the steering column, and then the ground from the 9pin cable is grounded to another bolt on the other side of the steering column. I had no idea that offsets even existed, and still don't know what tool I need to test for them or w/e.

I already datalogged it as is and sent it to AM, I should have the revision done today or tomorrow since I sent it Tuesday... I forgot to tell them to account for my pacesetter headers, and also forgot that I wanted to put my other 2010 intake on there with the ribs cut out for better flow. Oh well, will do at a later time I guess.
 

s8v4o

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I'm using AEM. I spoke with SCT on the matter and they said use either one, analog 1 or 2. I just used analog 1 and connected it to the 0-5V Output wire from the wideband.

As far as grounds, you guys lost me forever ago.

I have the boost gauge and wideband grounded to a bolt on one side of the steering column, and then the ground from the 9pin cable is grounded to another bolt on the other side of the steering column. I had no idea that offsets even existed, and still don't know what tool I need to test for them or w/e.

I already datalogged it as is and sent it to AM, I should have the revision done today or tomorrow since I sent it Tuesday... I forgot to tell them to account for my pacesetter headers, and also forgot that I wanted to put my other 2010 intake on there with the ribs cut out for better flow. Oh well, will do at a later time I guess.

You don't need any tool. If your wideband is programmable set it to output only 2.5V so it has NO RANGE (normal range is 0-5V). Then you datalog the wideband through your SCT device while hooked up to your laptop that's running SCT's Livelink and in the formula for your analog input you just have "V" without the quotation marks. Now you're datalogging voltage. Then you see what it reads. If you see 2.46 then your ground offset is 2.50-2.46=0.04. Did you read that article? If so if would make much more sense to you.

If you need assistance over the phone you can PM me.
 

Niels04Cobra

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Justin, sorry to clutter your thread. I do have real world experience and supporting data with this as I have wired my Innovate LM1 to my SCT livewire device. I took an old firewire cable that I already had and mated it with the 9 pin connector. I DID NOT add the extra ground from the 9 pin and only used the ground from the livewire device. I did it this way only because I actually tested my setup using the 2.5V method and my results were 2.48V. So my "ground offest" was only 0.02V. That's not a huge differential and if NOT accounted for it will only throw off your AFR around 0.1. Since I thought that was acceptable I left it as is and accounted for it in my formula. Without doing the test though you won't know how well you wired it and you won't be able to completely trust your AFR readings. Hope this info helps.

What brand wideband are you using?

okay, I'm going to resurrect a really old thread here in a forum I've never used before... hopefully I don't get flamed :(

Hello, I'm on the hunt for some information and found some information in one of your past posts a couple years ago that leads me to believe you may be able to help.
I have a old innovate LM1 which is wired up with a old XD-16 gauge. I have an xcal 4 that I'm trying to get to datalog with my my older innovate stuff. There is quite a bit of info on wiring up an xcal 2 with the older stuff but no a lot on making the older stuff (i.e. xd-16 AND LM1) work with an xcal 4. I read in one of your posts that you made your own special cable by joining a 9 pin serial cable and firewire cable. I would LOVE to hear more about this cable and clarify what you did. I located a firewire cable and pinned the cable out till i just had the one analog 2 pin wired to a spade butt connector (I didn't use the grounds as I figured I'd test later for the offset and see if I was okay just using the xcal 4 ground through the DLC3).. Normally you would just hook this up to the brown wire in the newer innovate gauges but my older xd-16 gauge only has an analog cable. Here was my thought before seeing your post... please let me know if I was incorrect.

I was thinking I could disconnect the 9 pin mini din cable that goes from the XD-16 gauge to the LM1 box. Then I could take a new 9 pin mini din cable and plug it into the LM1 box. I could then cut off the other end of the 9 pin mini DIN cable hooked up to the LM1, and wire the analog 2 wire to the fire wire cable I already made and plug this into the xcal 4. Does this sound like it would work? I wouldn't have the gauge during datalogging, but should be able to see my af within the sct software. Is this what you did?
I'm sorry for the long message from someone you don't know, but I'm having a hard time finding anyone else with a similar older setup that I have.
Any help you can provide would be great!
 

s8v4o

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I have a couple of questions first. The X4 is supposed to have two analog inputs, what kind are they? Also how does your XD-16 hook up to the LM1, with the patch cable? The XD-16 is just a 2 wire input on the round connector correct?
 

Niels04Cobra

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I have a couple of questions first. The X4 is supposed to have two analog inputs, what kind are they? Also how does your XD-16 hook up to the LM1, with the patch cable? The XD-16 is just a 2 wire input on the round connector correct?

The X4 comes with firewire inputs (should be same as X3 as far as inputs).

As far as the XD-16, it has a power and ground wire (red and black wire) and then it has 2 analog (female headphone jack style) wires... one analog is an input, and the other an output. Unlike the newer innovate gauges, that's all it's got (no brown or yellow wires to tap into). I've got the analog output from the XD-16 going to a serial cable that I used when programming the gauge (like all innovate gauges), and the input is hooked to the patch cable (you surmised) that goes to the LM1 box in the serial port.

I had two hypothesis that I'm hoping at LEAST ONE will work.

1. My previous guess/suggestion that I can take a round style serial cable (9 pin mini DIN cable) and hack it up and wire to a firewire cable and connect it to the serial cable input of the LM1 box, and then attach the firewire side to the SCT XCAL4

2. My next guess/question would be if I could use the output serial cable coming from the XD-16 (used to update and program the gauge) and create my own cable that could plug into the computer style serial port and wire it to a firewire cable

I know I know, that's a lot of what if's. For the record, I tried calling innovate but I recently learned they were bought out by autometer. In years past, I would have an issue and their technical department could ALWAYS walk me through any issues. After speaking with their new tech guys, they no longer support any of the old stuff and have no remaining innovate people that work there. :(

btw, thank you for getting back to me to help. I greatly appreciate it
 

s8v4o

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The X4 comes with firewire inputs (should be same as X3 as far as inputs).

As far as the XD-16, it has a power and ground wire (red and black wire) and then it has 2 analog (female headphone jack style) wires... one analog is an input, and the other an output. Unlike the newer innovate gauges, that's all it's got (no brown or yellow wires to tap into). I've got the analog output from the XD-16 going to a serial cable that I used when programming the gauge (like all innovate gauges), and the input is hooked to the patch cable (you surmised) that goes to the LM1 box in the serial port.

I had two hypothesis that I'm hoping at LEAST ONE will work.

1. My previous guess/suggestion that I can take a round style serial cable (9 pin mini DIN cable) and hack it up and wire to a firewire cable and connect it to the serial cable input of the LM1 box, and then attach the firewire side to the SCT XCAL4

2. My next guess/question would be if I could use the output serial cable coming from the XD-16 (used to update and program the gauge) and create my own cable that could plug into the computer style serial port and wire it to a firewire cable

I know I know, that's a lot of what if's. For the record, I tried calling innovate but I recently learned they were bought out by autometer. In years past, I would have an issue and their technical department could ALWAYS walk me through any issues. After speaking with their new tech guys, they no longer support any of the old stuff and have no remaining innovate people that work there. :(

btw, thank you for getting back to me to help. I greatly appreciate it

You are probably thinking it's more complicated than it really is. In theory you shouldn't have to change your setup at all, you just need to make an addition. The LM1 kit came with a 2.5mm analog stereo cable. It had the connector on one side and just wires on the other side. Like this...

Xcal2_four.jpg


This stereo connector plugs into the LM1 analog output port (or possibly to the output of your gauge for daisy chaining). The only thing you will need to do is splice the stereo cable into your firewire cable. It should be pretty straight forward. That's the type of cable I made. It was a 2.5mm stereo jack to firewire, not serial to firewire. That's all I did to make it work. I wasn't running an additional gauge like you but I don't see how that would change things though since you can daisy chain them with the 2.5mm stereo wires. The 2.5mm stereo patch cable I made didn't have an external ground either. I don't believe I needed one. If I had a huge ground offset then I might have rewired it with an external ground but I don't think it was necessary. Here's another image you should find helpful....

SCT-9608-3.jpg


With those two images you should be able to piece it together. I made my cable back in 2007 so it's been a while for me to recall exactly what pins went to what wires. Fortunately I still have the car and my wideband setup so if you can't figure it out I can take a look at mine and give you more information. Hope all this helps!
 

Niels04Cobra

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I saw this diagram of the stereo jack online during my searches but wasn't sure if this would work. I've ordered this cable off eBay and will give it go.

Any ideas how I will be able to tell which wire is the output 1, 2 and ground so I know which wire goes to the firewire? Do I only need to use one wire from this stereo jack (probably output 2 since I already wired a firewire with analog output 2) and as you said, don't need the grounds in the firewire or the analog stereo wiring?
 

s8v4o

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IIRC the "ground" in the stereo wire picture would go to the "Gnd" (black) on the firewire. The output 1 and output 2 on the stereo jack correlate be the Analog 1 (or 2 depending on which way you wire it) and the analog "Gnd". Without seeing my wire in front of me I would guess that the red wire on the stereo jack would be the Analog 1 (+) and the white wire in that picture would go to the Analog 1 Gnd (-) on the firewire. I can try to confirm this later when i get home if I can remember.
 

s8v4o

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Found the original LM1 manual online that shows how to know the pin assignments for the stereo jack. Thanks S8V40!

Good! You still will need to figure what color wire corresponds to the tip of the connector of that stereo connector. Just use a simply digital volt and ohm meter to find out which is which. Good luck.
 

Niels04Cobra

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Good! You still will need to figure what color wire corresponds to the tip of the connector of that stereo connector. Just use a simply digital volt and ohm meter to find out which is which. Good luck.

I got you.... just like I had to when I made my firewire. This time I'll remake my firewire to have 3 wires... analog 1, analog 2 and the ground. Then I'll do the same with the stereo jack and wire them each to each other (ground to ground, analog 1 to 1, analog 2 to 2). I know I technically only need one analog wire (not both) but might as well do it only one more time.

You're the man, thanks again and I'll report back how it works out in case there's another person out there with the older innovate stuff.

Push comes to shove and it doesn't work, I'll have to go with a newer style MTX gauge (that has the box and gauge in one) and then I'll be able to ditch the LM1 that's been in the glove box since 2005!

One last question for you since you've been a long term innovate user. How does your innovate w/b hold up regarding sensors? I was considering buying the new mtx gauge setup and read a lot of reviews that people burn up sensors like crazy. I know i've gone through quite a few over the years and was wondering how yours has done. I read about the AEM w/b guys and they don't have to have the fresh air calibration done and they don't have dying sensor issues. Your thoughts?

Okay I lied, one last question... are you a vendor on here? If so, I'd love to know for who or the name of the company so I can provide my business when the time arises!
 

s8v4o

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Believe it or not I've got two sensors, one that came with the kit and an extra one. Both read fine to this day. I just wanted to have one as a backup. Just remember to have it hooked up and on if it's the exhaust stream. Having it mounted without it being on and functional can screw it up. In answer to your question no I'm not a vendor, just a long time regular user. I'm really glad you found this info useful and let me know how your cable works out for you.
 

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