cortex watts link

[ArizonaGT]

Great info; I'm thinking to install this in 2014.

 

[jayh007]

Nice to know. That was my first impression when I checked the web. Looked like first class workmanship.

 

[Sharad]

ok, I'll try not to add too much fuel to this "which is better" fire, but I can add some factual information about one of these watts links. Because of my employment, I have some pretty unique hands-on experience w/ the Boss-S & -R race cars. I can tell you that very recently, the Cortex unit was tested & approved for use by one of the Ford Racing engineers, on a Boss-R that we sponsor (Alec Udell). His car also happens to be one of the fastest cars in the World Challenge series.

Long story- the Ford Racing guys keep pretty tight control over what parts are used on those race cars; they don't really want anything on the track that they haven't had a chance to test and approve (think- if a bunch of Mustang race cars use unvalidated parts and crash, it won't look good for Ford's Mustang racing program). Udell's team wanted to use the Cortex unit, and Ford agreed so long as they could validate it. We installed one in one of the mules and tested it at a semi-local track. FRPP and Cortex are working together to make some very minor bracket changes (where it welds to the body), but other than that, it has been approved for their use.

I can tell you with complete certainty that every part that goes into either the Cobra Jets or Boss race cars (and ultimately into the FRPP catalog) is tested to the n^th degree. The new rear parachute bumper on the '14 CJ has at least 5-8 design revisions and probably 30+ passes on it (with load cell testing), to know exactly what happens when the chute is deployed. So... I'm fairly comfortable with anything they've tested.

Does that mean all of the others suck? No. Just means the Cortex unit is one they have tested and approved. And Filip is an outstanding guy if you ever get to meet him and share a drink or two.

It's funny you say that... I know Ford is very particular with what parts go on their cars, so when I was checking out Udell's car at PRI, I noticed the Cortex parts right away. I asked the Ford guys about it and they sheepishly said "maybe he could help" and pointed at some young dude standing in front of them. I asked him about the cortex parts. Told him I really like the cortex watts and the relocated coilovers, and he discussed the parts with me. Afterward he handed me his card and told me to call him if I wanted to order some parts. It wasn't until after I got home from PRI that I noticed the card said "Filip Trojanek, Founder, Engineer". Woah. Very quiet, unassuming dude. My respect just went up there.

 

[jayh007]

I thought someone posted that welding was required for the installation of the cortex so I contacted Filip and asked about the welding required. He stated none required. That's good!

 

[Whiskey11]

I thought someone posted that welding was required for the installation of the cortex so I contacted Filip and asked about the welding required. He stated none required. That's good!

I didn't think there was either. Filip has done a lot to keep his kits basically bolt in. Some are more involved than others but most of his parts are 100% bolt in. My Torque Arm was the same way, I drilled two holes in the ears on the differential housing and that was the only modifications necessary to get it to work.

I'm sure others are also familiar with the fact that Filip genuinely wants to help people get his parts to work. The guy bent over backwards to accommodate me working around SCCA rules for Torque Arms on the S197 chassis and we found a solution that worked and that was noted as "in the spirit of the rules" when I asked the STAC and SEB about it.

 

[NoTicket]

Strange, this is his reply to my email on June 6 asking him if there was any welding required.

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for writing.* They system is 100% compatible with your 2014 car.

There is a small weld to positively attached the additional bracket on the watts link.* It can easily be removed at a later time in about 10 minutes though.* I have included a copy of the installation instructions for you to review.**

I'd be glad to answer further questions.* Let me know how I can help.* The difference this system makes is incredible. If you are looking for a system that is reasonable on the street and a terror on the road course this is it!

Thanks,

Filip Trojanek

Edit: if needed I can post the instructions he sent (I don't think it would be a problem). It looks like there are 2 bolts that hold the watts tower to the chassis, but they are in a place that makes it somewhat apparent it will not be structurally sound without welding.

Again, welding it should not be that expensive.

 

[jayh007]

That is Strange! Here's his email reply
8:33 PM (23 hours ago)
Hi Jay,

Thanks for writing. There is no welding required for to install the watts link.


Filip Trojanek
CorteX Precision Technology
415.489.0866

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Jesse, can you post a link to the Cortex installation instructions that discuss the welding procedure for their watts link? Sounds like its based on lessons learned from their collaboration with Ford Racing Boss-R. Thanks, Mike

 

[barbaro]

As to the fae palmers. I will go one step further. The fays II Watts Link is an abortion. Everyone I know that has one complains bitterly about the noise it makes. It appears that Ford Racing is not using the FaysII Watts Link or a similar design. It is obtrusive, unwieldy, inelegant and based on the anecdotal information makes noise. Also the more apparatus you have underneath your car the more likely you are to have conflicts with sway bars, exhaust etc . . . If I have learned anything here, it is that most of the people that act like they know . . . don't know.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

People can pay $1,000 for a watts link that's been out for a short period of time vs. $650 for one that's been out since 2005 in support of vintage racing, SN95 and S197 platforms that provides similar performance. If people think the Cortex unit is worth an extra $350 for its "elegance and beauty", go for it $$$.

Personally, I've had no fitment or clearance issues using the Fays2 with OEM or aftermarket exhaust systems and sway bars, or NVH issues, while providing more adjustability. The Fays2 is an original bolt-on design vs. one that's applying lessons from a Griggs copied unit from a pivot bolt design and arms perspective.

Cortex (top) vs. Griggs (bottom) watts link components:

 

[NoTicket]

Fays2 is loud and annoying.

I will try and convert the PDF to images tomorrow and post it in an imgur gallery. There is no good way to share PDFs any more that I am aware of.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It appears that Ford Racing is not using the FaysII Watts Link or a similar design. It is obtrusive, unwieldy, inelegant and based on the anecdotal information makes noise.

It would be really nice to know what Ford Racing's reasoning was.

What a Watts link looks like should be irrelevant to a racer or serious performance addict, who generally don't give a rat's ass about what the lawn chair crowd with mirrors showing the undercarriage might think. All it has to do is work as desired without being overly heavy or getting too much in the way. No, you probably can't fit an over the axle 4" dual exhaust with the Fays2, but so what?

I know for absolute fact that Watts links have been discussed on a rather higher level of technical savvy than you find in "Off-Topic", "Lounge", or "Talk" sections. One of the earliest threads I know of concerned a problem with a Griggs piece, back around August of 2002 if that really matters. It's safe to say that since then the obvious technical pros and cons of both arrangements have been identified, as have the cons that resulted from the SCCA's recent and ill-thought positioning on these things. If one arrangement truly was that much superior to the other, the relative availability in the aftermarket would reflect as much today, rather than the similar numbers of each that we have.

It's OK to be a strong proponent of either design (and I'm not going to get involved either way here). Putting the other arrangement down for reasons that have nothing to do with its function . . . shall I say 'weakens' credibility?


I'd also like to see different views of the various component pieces of the Cortex design.


Norm

 

[Whiskey11]

As to the fae palmers. I will go one step further. The fays II Watts Link is an abortion. Everyone I know that has one complains bitterly about the noise it makes. It appears that Ford Racing is not using the FaysII Watts Link or a similar design. It is obtrusive, unwieldy, inelegant and based on the anecdotal information makes noise. Also the more apparatus you have underneath your car the more likely you are to have conflicts with sway bars, exhaust etc . . . If I have learned anything here, it is that most of the people that act like they know . . . don't know.

Do you even have experience with the Fays2 or are you going on the word of people who have heard from someone who has heard from someone?

I've had my Fays2 for 2 years now and the only time it has ever made any extra Noise, Vibration or Harshness was when the rod ends were wearing out and guess what, they do that when you DD the car with them, rain, snow, or shine. The folks who DO have added noise from it didn't install the unit correctly and it is binding through it's motion which wears out the rod ends prematurely and puts a crap ton of strain on the various components of the watts link.

The Fays2 unit allows for the same exhaust clearance as the stock PHB does because the Fays2's frame doesn't protrude any further vertically than the stock PHB brace does so I'm not sure why folks are having fitment issues with the Fays2... it is probably because their exhaust setups are installed incorrectly or built incorrectly.

The Fays2 also clears dozens of aftermarket rear swaybars so I'm not sure what crack you are smoking there. The only thing that the Fays2 really interferes with is aftermarket differential covers but it clears the FRPP finned cover just fine so short of not having the bearing support caps, you are basically covered for needs.

As for acting like I know and not actually knowing, I think two years with one under my car qualifies me far more than someone who most likely has never owned one.

I'm with Norm, I'm concerned with performance, not beauty... the beauty is in the design and function of the unit, maybe not necessarily it's execution of the geometry.

 

[jayh007]

This is what I love about racing. I can walk down pit lane ask for a technical opinion get numerous different answers. Some based on past experience and mathematics, others off the wall based on here say. I listen to all the information and do my best to make the most logical decision. As far as the watts links not much analytical information available just personal opinion from people who have purchased one of the units. Head to head comparison on track would be nice.

I guess only thing that be done is sort through the opinions, personal experiences and product specs to come up with a direction. I try not to let price sway my decision, but it does to a certain extent. That being said I still don’t see a clear cut winner yet. I would like to hear from someone who has actually installed and run a coertex watts link.

 

[sheizasosay]

If I have learned anything here, it is that most of the people that act like they know . . . don't know.

Do you even have experience with the Fays2 or are you going on the word of people who have heard from someone who has heard from someone?

In summary....most people push what they have purchased(not you Whiskey). The watts link makes your car like independent rear suspension, cures baldness and cancer.

I can expect Barbaro to push Cortex.
I can expect Road Racer 350 to push Whiteline.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Norm, I updated my post above to show you the Cortex components and how they compare to the Griggs unit.

How were Mustangs winning road course races before the introduction of the Cortex product? It's a mystery

A watts link that changes the differential cover (Cortex) will quickly throw you into the most race-car like class.

You can compete in the lower classes with the Fays2. Rod-ends don't have lateral deflection vs. four bushings.

 

[NoTicket]

For whatever reason there is a lot more bickering over watts link brands than most other facets of suspension. I'm willing to take Whiskey11's word for it that the Fays2 under normal circumstances is quiet. I have only been in one car with it on and it clunked over every bump, but apparently this is due to improper installation.

And as for why Ford Racing is going with Cortex probably has more to do with the fact there are a high percentage of the spec Mustang race cars out there now running the Cortex Spec package. Additionally a Cortex Watts equipped Boss 302s just won their class in the 25 hours of Thunderhill. Nothing beats being proven to last through some legitimate racing.

[URL="http://imgur.com/a/PeHqW] As promised here is an album of the converted PDF of the instructions. [/URL] I will sort it later today when I get the chance. As it is the pages are all out of order. I did this all from my phone so bear with me.

 

[Roadracer350]

In summary....most people push what they have purchased(not you Whiskey). The watts link makes your car like independent rear suspension, cures baldness and cancer.

I can expect Barbaro to push Cortex.
I can expect Road Racer 350 to push Whiteline.

I will admit I do push Whiteline. That's what I have experience with and so far she is working great! To the OP I will say this. Get what you like. All 3 (Whiteline, Cortex, Griggs) will be leaps and bounds better than a PHB set up. Like I have said in many posts I chose Whiteline because I wanted a top notch suspension system but didn't want to pay a ton of cash for it. I checked all 3 units and for what I wanted and the price I couldn't beat Whiteline. Any system you choose will be better than what you have...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, I updated my post above to show you the Cortex components and how they compare to the Griggs unit.

Actually, I'm looking for views of some of those components as you'd see them in side view on the car and up a little closer for better detail. Figuring out where they go isn't hard, I just want a little more idea what exactly is getting assembled, single shear vs double shear and other technical aspects.


Norm

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Looks like the Cortex has a "single [outer] and kind of a double [center bolt] sheer" setup with its bridge design based on this photo.

I wonder what size and grade bolt the Whiteline team used and thickness of the part the bolts connected to that led to a failure on their single sheer setup?:

This is the Fays2 double-sheer design:

I did a Google search to see if there are any incidents of a Fays2 watts link bolt failure on any of the forums by actual users, and haven't found any examples.

Perhaps that's the $350 dollar question:

"Fays2 and Cortex have a single & double sheer design, but in different locations. Is the Cortex worth $350 more based on the proven reliability of the Fays2?"