Deal of the day for 05-14 owners

[Pentalab]

Any of this bolt-on supplemental bracing has the potential for causing additional damage in the event of a relatively minor crash. Major crashes tend to be total wrecks, and would be with or without such added bracing. Both the X-brace and any STB would probably fall in this category, as would the PHB brace.


Norm

See my post #88.

Also saw a stang that had flipped around 180 deg...and hit a telephone pole. The rear bumper ended up within a few inches of the driver's side head rest. 2 yrs later, saw a pix of another stang do exactly the same thing.... but the bumper did not get past the rear X brace. The X brace may well be worth it just from a safety perspective. The extra 10% chassis stiffening is nothing to sneeze at..and an added bonus.

 

[DevGittinJr]

Excellent concept. Steeda makes a 'X' brace that does NOT require removal of the rear seats. Light weight, (think it was aprx 9-11 lbs shipping weight), made from 1 3/8" chromolly steel, and .083" wall thickness for the CM tubing.

I used the steeda rear STB, which is adjustable in length, uses spherical ends, and is welded into place. Laugh all you want, but the piece works. I used the front steeda STB, its adjustable in length, and clears my CAI and blower. It is mounted to all 4 strut tower bolts...on both ends of the stb. (steeda HD front strut mounts used ). Beauty is both front + rear STB's are removable...at either / both ends. That came in handy when replacing the TB and plugs on driver's side. The driver's side of the front STB was unbolted...and simply lifted up

While I was at it, also installed the steeda triangular subframe connectors, also made of CM tubing..and bolted em in, using blue thread locker, then also welded them in. Between the 2 x subframe connectors went the BMR rear tunnel brace (+ mating DS safety loop). The BMR rear tunnel brace sits just aft of the oem DS pillow block bearing on the oem ford 2 piece DS. The BMR rear tunnel brace is made from 1/4" thick DOM plate.

While on a roll, I installed the BMR front A arm brace, which sits just in front of the ford oem A arm brace ( which actually ties the rear of the oem K frame together). Steeda version is called a G trac brace. Then installed the steeda 14-16" long CM pair of front sway bar braces, which are mounted diagonally across each front corner.

Ok, laff all you want at the 'do-dads'... but when switching to several other local 2010 GT's, the difference is readily apparent..as in blatantly obvious. The front + back ends feel more....'solidified'

Yes, all parts combined, the car feels more solid, takes a set quicker, etc. I have a BMR k-member, rad-sup, chassis brace, a-arms, a-arm brace, sfc's, front ds loop, phb and brace, lca's and brackets, uca and brace, Shelby floorpan plates (connecting the sfc's to the k-member), rear stb (not welded yet), MM roll bar (not welded yet), and OE front stb. The subframe is literally connected from the rad sup to the rear stb. Hence the sig quote. The sum total makes for a noticeably stiffer chassis, no doubt, but take off the stb or swap in the OE phb brace and things don't change at all. We can digress all day, but the fact remains that upgrading the phb brace is useless in terms of performance. The aftermarket ones are "beefier" off of the car, but how many times have you used it off of the car?

 

[Norm Peterson]

So Norm, when you say it's not worth the increased risk of damage should you ever wreck the car in a rear end side strike way, can we all take this same thought as to why we should NEVER consider a strut tower brace? I mean, Ford put a PHB brace on every car, they don't put a strut tower brace on all Mustangs, yet I'm sure you would agree if you had a front end side impact (not a stretch for a car with a propensity of understeer) that would transmit additional damage to the other side. I guess since you can drive a Mustang to its limit of tire adhesion and the strut towers are still there when done driving, there is no need for one. Wait, Ford does put a strut tower brace on some cars.........so is there a need or not?

If you choose to add one, do so with the knowledge that you could incur greater damage and make sure that the actual benefits for you are at least worth that risk, plus any added inconvenience when working under the hood for such things as plugs, coils, brake fluid maintenance, etc.

Ford and other mfrs add such bars mainly for NVH reasons, convertibles in particular. Any performance improvement likely comes more from improved driver confidence (from the "more solid" feeling) than from any actual increase in those performance limits. That's for a two point STB.

To argue over someone offering different components than stock would be a never ending thing. Post to every single person that makes any change from stock and tell them how Ford engineering cannot be improved upon, therefore they have wasted their money and made the car worse. These are Ford Mustangs, they are cheap, those engineers have huge constraints, components are shot down over pennies of cost. We aren't talking about McLarens or Ferraris, I don't even have a button to open my trunk.

Ford also has some pretty sharp engineers on staff. Sure, there are compromises that get made - structural and mechanical engineering tends to be like that no matter what the industry. But in order to intelligently discuss improving S197 performance from there, you need a deeper understanding than the minimal amount it takes to bolt different things on just because they look stronger or are painted prettier.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

The aftermarket ones are "beefier" off of the car, but how many times have you used it off of the car?

Quoted for the obvious truth.


Norm

 

[Pentalab]

If you choose to add one, do so with the knowledge that you could incur greater damage and make sure that the actual benefits for you are at least worth that risk, plus any added inconvenience when working under the hood for such things as plugs, coils, brake fluid maintenance, etc.

Norm

You won't increase damage to the car with the inclusion of a front stb, just the opposite, from the 2 cars that I saw both hit on the pass side front wheel area....into guard rails + lamp post. You can't bolt any stb to the firewall anyway, since it's not a real firewall (real one is behind what u see). Some stb designs are better than others. Some only use the pair of inner strut mounting bolts ( steeda uses all 4, snug fit ). The Ford STB 1st used on the 2010 is like that..and uses long slots, since the length of the STB is fixed. Those strut bolts only have 26 ft lbs on em, so its not a solid connection. Same rectangular Ford stb was used on the 2011 V6
since it was high in the center. Same stb again used in the 12 /13 Boss cars...again for clearance, since the stb was a lot higher in the center portion.

PITA if u want to work on changing plugs / TB etc, etc. I have steeda HD front strut mounts with camber adj, so don't want any stb in there, that can't be removed without touching the strut bolts. Steeda's stb allows for removing a single transverse bolt at either end, to allow the stb to swing up at an angle, to access the plugs and TB etc). It also has length adjustment. Problems solved, clears my cai + blower, doesn't budge since it uses round close fit holes, 4 at each end, length adjustability, and clears the hood.

 

[Phil1098]

Ford also has some pretty sharp engineers on staff.

Norm

On this I agree 100%, I think given the constraints of budget and such they do a fantastic job. I can't imagine how big of a challenge it is to come up with a part that is what they want that costs $25 to make and be told, looks great, now get it done for $3. There are also the style committee people that have to have certain things in the car too that no performance person would give a care less about. It's just all part of the compromise when building something for the masses, they are trying to please everyone..........at least a little bit.

 

[ArtQ]

Only one left!!

 

[Norm Peterson]

You won't increase damage . . .

I did say 'could'. Not guaranteed, just possible. Maybe you'd be getting close to totaled territory when the damage did get spread wider by a STB.

Details matter. Connections that can slip and curved beams that can bend some more or buckle will behave as structural fuses and limit the extent of consequential damage or eliminate it entirely. Presumably enough joint friction exists for sufficient NVH and local stiffening behavior under normal loads purposes.

You can't bolt any stb to the firewall anyway, since it's not a real firewall (real one is behind what u see).

Probably not do-able for an entry-level DIY'er with a couple of wrenches, but I'm sure that any decent cage builder could find a way.


Norm

 

[Phil1098]

Ford and other mfrs add such bars mainly for NVH reasons, convertibles in particular. Any performance improvement likely comes more from improved driver confidence (from the "more solid" feeling) than from any actual increase in those performance limits. That's for a two point STB.

Norm

Hey Norm, I can't find any support on this opinion anywhere. On the FRPP site they come right out and say that the strut tower brace stiffens the chassis, same thing at Roush. Ford always puts them on the highest performance models, why would the owners of the highest performance models give a hoot about NVH? I'm really not trying to argue with you, just have never seen this about a strut tower brace anywhere.

 

[WARstang]

So after 6 pages this is still going... Are you guys just coping n' pasting old posts with the same words?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Hey Norm, I can't find any support on this opinion anywhere. On the FRPP site they come right out and say that the strut tower brace stiffens the chassis, same thing at Roush. Ford always puts them on the highest performance models, why would the owners of the highest performance models give a hoot about NVH? I'm really not trying to argue with you, just have never seen this about a strut tower brace anywhere.

Because it's still advertising and still has to be aimed at what most of your target buying group understands and expects. Indeed, just the name Ford Racing Performance Products leads you to expect something about what they have to offer, and NVH reduction isn't part of that expectation.

Enthusiasts naturally want to look at things in terms of vehicle performances such as acceleration times, cornering g's, braking distances, and lap times. But there are other aspects of vehicle design that have different types of performance goals.

A dozen years or so ago I got to see a STB that was factory installed on an ordinary sedan (might have been a Buick). Improved cornering behavior wouldn't have been the primary reason it was there; any improvement would have been incidental, after NVH and maybe braking. (I was working in a dealership service department mostly as the odd-job lot guy, so I got to see lots of different cars with the hoods open)

On convertibles, cowl shake tends to be a significant problem, and adding an STB seems to be an effective and mostly unobtrusive way of reducing it.


Norm

 

[Speedboosted]

Why would you say this? Ford did a computer analysis of the chassis and knows it needs a brace. They integrated mounting hardware and attachment points. The stock brace is clearly a low dollar piece since every dollar counts when mass producing. I guess Whiteline, Steeda , and BMR should have consulted you before they wasted time engineering, making jigs, producing, and testing their braces. I can't imagine that anything that strengthens the chassis is useless. Must feel good knowing that absolutely every dollar you have spent on a car has been 100% worthwhile.

Do you even know what the pan hard brace is there for? It's not a chassis brace, it's a brace to help distribute the load against the tab where the pan hard attaches. It is there so the tab doesn't distort or deform over a long period of time, has nothing to do with the rest of the chassis.

My Whiteline watts link comes with one of those braces, but it's made out of Chromoly and the sole purpose is to support the loads that driver side arm puts on the Whiteline supplied tab. And don't even compare stand up companies like Whiteline, Steeda, BMR, etc to that shit over at GMS.

I go into the corner carvers section to listen and learn, not to argue like some other old guy that always seems angry when people try to point him down the correct path. So yes, it does feel good that every suspension part has been completely worthwhile, because it actually was.

 

[Phil1098]

My Whiteline watts link comes with one of those braces, but it's made out of Chromoly and the sole purpose is to support the loads that driver side arm puts on the Whiteline supplied tab. And don't even compare stand up companies like Whiteline, Steeda, BMR, etc to that shit over at GMS.

Yes sir, whatever you say sir. I am so sorry I questioned your vast knowledge and brilliance. I didn't realize you took the Whiteline brace and the GMS brace and performed a finite element analysis on them to verify the GMS part was garbage, my mistake. I'm sure someone of your superior intelligence wouldn't just make a blind assumption based on brand name alone. I did enjoy looking at the failed Whiteline watts links in posts, maybe they should have consulted you on the design.

 

[Phil1098]

(I was working in a dealership service department mostly as the odd-job lot guy, so I got to see lots of different cars with the hoods open)

On convertibles, cowl shake tends to be a significant problem, and adding an STB seems to be an effective and mostly unobtrusive way of reducing it.


Norm

I worked at a dealership for over a decade was involved in over 1000 car deals, have driven pretty much everything made. You want to experience cowl shake, drive a pre 98 Corvette convertible or almost as bad a pre 98 Corvette coupe with the top removed. It's so bad I pulled over just to put the top back in to get it to stop.

Ford also puts a A arm brace on convertibles to help with this. Looks like a piece of conduit with smashed ends, but it's strong enough.

 

[DevGittinJr]

Do you even know what the pan hard brace is there for? It's not a chassis brace, it's a brace to help distribute the load against the tab where the pan hard attaches. It is there so the tab doesn't distort or deform over a long period of time, has nothing to do with the rest of the chassis

 

[mavisky]

My god, I can't help but laugh at the "Don't buy this $10 part that either doesn't help or helps in a minimal way because it may cause more damage to another part of your car in an accident" argument.

If people want to spend their money on this part let them spend their money. In the end a day on course perfecting your driving skills is going to get your a better laptimes than half the suspension mods people bolt on anyway.

 

[Phil1098]

That would be funny if he was right, but he's not.

 

[Phil1098]

Do you even know what the pan hard brace is there for? It's not a chassis brace, it's a brace to help distribute the load against the tab where the pan hard attaches. It is there so the tab doesn't distort or deform over a long period of time, has nothing to do with the rest of the chassis.

Too bad you don't understand it yourself. The mount for the PHB hangs down from the chassis, this is a moment arm. A moment arm as it increases in length gives leverage, it's why you use a breaker bar on a tight nut or bolt instead of ratchet. As a lateral load gets placed against the mount it's force on the chassis is increased due to the moment arms length. This puts a twisting force on that area of the chassis. The strongest way to stabilize anything is to triangulate it. That is what the PHB brace does is stabilize the mount area giving the PHB mount a consistent point to pivot from.

 

[BMR Tech]

Wowza!

All these posts about a panhard bar brace!

The funny thing is, I bet GMS is still making money on these at $25 shipped. lol.

Not a lot, but a few pennies atleast.

 

[weather man]

Wowza!

All these posts about a panhard bar brace!

The funny thing is, I bet GMS is still making money on these at $25 shipped. lol.

Not a lot, but a few pennies atleast.

S197 is the new, new edge body. S550 FTW! Clear that old inventory!