eagle vs kellogg crank

[BadPiggy]

Why do you want a stock stroke crank?

What would you suggest in a Boss block as far as crank goes?

Boss blocks are bored to get their 302"
4.6 blocks are stroked to get their 302"

Is it possible to put a stroked crank in a Boss block?
If so, what would that make the CI?

 

[01yellerCobra]

What would you suggest in a Boss block as far as crank goes?

Boss blocks are bored to get their 302"
4.6 blocks are stroked to get their 302"

Is it possible to put a stroked crank in a Boss block?
If so, what would that make the CI?

Yes. It is. Bruce is running a big bore stroker. I am as well. Mine is a 323cid. I think the 3.8" crank takes it to 326.

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[BadPiggy]

Yes. It is. Bruce is running a big bore stroker. I am as well. Mine is a 323cid. I think the 3.8" crank takes it to 326.

Misspelling brought to you by tapatalk

Do you also have to run stroker rods...or do the standard length work?

 

[sportinawoody]

Do you also have to run stroker rods...or do the standard length work?

stock length rods, stock stroke crank, 3.700" pistons for 302 inches,
ad 3.75 or 3.80" stroker cranks to 5.850" rods with same pistons but different compression heights for 32* inches.322 with 3.750" crank 326 with 3.800" crank

 

[BruceH]

Do you also have to run stroker rods...or do the standard length work?

I have a 3.75 Kellogg crank, 5.85 manley rods, and 1.200" ch diamond shelf pistons with two mods. Total displacement is 322 cubic inches.

A stock stroke setup would give you 304 cubic inches and allow the use of standard 5.933" rods and 1.22 compression height pistons.

I'm not a fan of strokers but in this case it makes sense since the bore is also being increased. I would of went with a stock stroke but a great deal turned up on the Kellogg crank and manley rods.

 

[roberts]

I have alredy purchased rods and pistons and i dont think u can run a stroker crank with stock height rods and pistions but i could be wrong

to "sportinawoody" "Is that an invitation to some good advise on a build underway ?"
We always have neet/cool builds going on. What are you looking for?

to "v6tungsten" Call/PM us we can help you

To answer "Roberts" my question would be. Why do you want a stock stroke crank?

 

[EagleStroker]

well the steel is chinese, they are forged here in the states. which means an american company actually manufactures such a second rate forging in comparison to the kellogg. I'm just dumbfounded. and doesn't frpp use the eagle in the aluminators?
I guess it must be for profit margins.

The steel is US Spec 4340, and is independently tested every batch. They are forged in China, counterweight clearanced and polished in MS. Ford does use Eagle parts.

We rate the eagles on our street series builds to 650 flywheel
We rate our Livernois/Kelloggs to 1000-1200 flywheel depending on rods used.

I'm confused, are we talking cast or forged 4340 cranks? Because the Kellogg isn't 4340, and doesn't utilize features such as a .125" radius for strengthening purposes.

Yes my opinions biased. Yes I'd love to talk with you further about this

Has anyone ever broken a eagle crank?
I see people using stock cranks to 700rwhp .
Wouldn't a cast eagle be stronger than the stock crank?

I would never recommend a cast 4.6 crank in anything out of a NA no power adder build, period. I've never seen a broken 4.6 crank but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.




This is not a sales pitch. I'm very glad the OP saved someone the heart ache of thinking this was a chevy small journal crank. The rod journal size is clearly listed on both our website and in our catalog. The 1.889" journal, which is the same journal run in NASCAR, was done to prevent clearance issues in the block with a longer stroke crank.

 

[BruceH]

The steel is US Spec 4340, and is independently tested every batch. They are forged in China, counterweight clearanced and polished in MS. Ford does use Eagle parts.



I'm confused, are we talking cast or forged 4340 cranks? Because the Kellogg isn't 4340, and doesn't utilize features such as a .125" radius for strengthening purposes.

Yes my opinions biased. Yes I'd love to talk with you further about this





I would never recommend a cast 4.6 crank in anything out of a NA no power adder build, period. I've never seen a broken 4.6 crank but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.




This is not a sales pitch. I'm very glad the OP saved someone the heart ache of thinking this was a chevy small journal crank. The rod journal size is clearly listed on both our website and in our catalog. The 1.889" journal, which is the same journal run in NASCAR, was done to prevent clearance issues in the block with a longer stroke crank.

Has the quality improved? One engine builder on this site reported that 1 in 3 Eagle cranks he used for mod motors had to be sent back due to excessive runout. That was about a year ago.

1.889" journal is also used by Honda, in fact it's referred to as a "Honda journal". Are you saying that the rods are externally smaller when used with a Honda journal? The Honda journal is only a little over a tenth of an inch smaller than the sbc. That would be just a little over .05" on each side.

 

[EagleStroker]

Has the quality improved? One engine builder on this site reported that 1 in 3 Eagle cranks he used for mod motors had to be sent back due to excessive runout. That was about a year ago.

1.889" journal is also used by Honda, in fact it's referred to as a "Honda journal". Are you saying that the rods are externally smaller when used with a Honda journal? The Honda journal is only a little over a tenth of an inch smaller than the sbc. That would be just a little over .05" on each side.

Morning Bruce, we have had some runout issues on particular batches no bones about it. I don't have a good answer for that other than we take care of problem cranks to the best of our abilities. Our sales are based on volume and we run into issues like this in production. It's how a company takes care of the customer that is the difference. At the end of the day we make the only forged 4340 crank for the 4.6 on the market.

In regards to the Honda journal rod pin, I wasn't trying to disguise the fact of what it was - I get heckled from SBC guys on that 'Honda' pin often and the thing I try to point out is that it is being used in high performance applications outside of their chosen application. The size difference would run about .055" side/side, I have customers that don't/won't eyebrow a block so depending on application that can make all the difference. We are currently looking at a 2.000" rod pin for a few customers requesting it and we will see how that shakes out in the wash.

 

[sportinawoody]

the pics don't lie though. the pic I posted doesn't do the comparison justice. Not going to beat up the performance because I haven't used the 4.6/5.0 version, but shearly based on side by side comparison on a scale of 1-10 , I give the eagle a 3 and that's just because the shape is correct and the journals are shiny. coupled with the Honda pin, it was wasted money for me. the journals weren't out per say but they were skewed and the Kellogg spec was pretty flat across all the journals and I give it an 8 as far as visual and mic'ing. I'd use my oliver rods with a Kellogg crank any day. Sorry if I sound like an ass but I just believe in being straight forward. I wasn't willing to spend this kind money to use with that crankshaft .
But hey, those aeroforce gauges you sold me still work great !

 

[BruceH]

Morning Bruce, we have had some runout issues on particular batches no bones about it. I don't have a good answer for that other than we take care of problem cranks to the best of our abilities. Our sales are based on volume and we run into issues like this in production. It's how a company takes care of the customer that is the difference. At the end of the day we make the only forged 4340 crank for the 4.6 on the market.

In regards to the Honda journal rod pin, I wasn't trying to disguise the fact of what it was - I get heckled from SBC guys on that 'Honda' pin often and the thing I try to point out is that it is being used in high performance applications outside of their chosen application. The size difference would run about .055" side/side, I have customers that don't/won't eyebrow a block so depending on application that can make all the difference. We are currently looking at a 2.000" rod pin for a few customers requesting it and we will see how that shakes out in the wash.

I wouldn't take too much crap about the Honda journals. SBC guys run them on their strokers. I had always guessed the reason for the smaller journals was because of tooling issues. I don't think it makes any difference strength wise, just in parts availability. Fuel and I were trying to come up with a sbc stroker rod bearing that would work with sbc sized rods and a Honda journal but struck out. Do you know of any? It would make sales jump on the 3.75 stroker crank imo. I'm sure you are aware of all the sbc sized 5.850 rods that are available for good prices. If a guy could pair them up with an inexpensive stroker crank it would be the makings of a nice budget 322 big bore that was meant to run over 400rwhp na. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks about that.

 

[Rpm427sc]

If anyone is looking for a Kellogg crank, I have one for sale:

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111172

 

[429244]

...I would never recommend a cast 4.6 crank in anything out of a NA no power adder build, period. I've never seen a broken 4.6 crank but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

Can you clarify that? Are you saying that a stock 4.6 crank is no good for a engine with a power adder?
Thanks

 

[sportinawoody]

I wouldn't take too much crap about the Honda journals.

I give the Eagle a ton of shit over the honda journal because there isnt a bearing on the market to use with the 2.125 journal of oliver/manley/etc,,, rods. you HAVE to run the eagle 5.950" rods and there is NO alternative here which in kind makes you need a different compression height piston. the honda journal on this engine doesn't make sense becuase you cant buy a different rod bearing to mount a different rod coupled with that horrible forging and skew'd journals. No brainer for me

 

[BruceH]

I give the Eagle a ton of shit over the honda journal because there isnt a bearing on the market to use with the 2.125 journal of oliver/manley/etc,,, rods. you HAVE to run the eagle 5.950" rods and there is NO alternative here which in kind makes you need a different compression height piston. the honda journal on this engine doesn't make sense becuase you cant buy a different rod bearing to mount a different rod coupled with that horrible forging and skew'd journals. No brainer for me

I understand all that. IMO the comment was directed toward strength issues.

I've been searching and still can't find a bearing. Since the rods are basically early sbc on the big end and the fact that sbc strokers use Honda journals I'd think there would be a solution but not yet. Some Honda rods could work with a ream on the little end but they cost more than the Eagle rods.

I'd love to try the cast Eagle crank with a big bore stroker but unless I find the rods at a bargain it's not going to happen.

 

[Alex5.0]

I have a Kellogg here and a Eagle , the Kellogg weight 48.5 pounds and the Eagle 50.5 pounds . The Kellogg have 2 slug of Mallory to match the manley rod and manley piston .

We changed to Kellogg because eagle could not sell a rod for 1000hp and no one other than eagle make Honda journal rods . I hate to stick for a brand for a reason like this so I ditched eagle and now we are free to buy rods and piston we want.

 

[msczesny1186]

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