Eibach Multi Pro R2

[Department Of Boost]

Seriously dude, cut your losses and sell those coilovers to someone who knows what they are doing. If you don't understand the principals of spring rate (which you clearly don't) there is NO WAY that you will ever get the adjustments dialed in.

Hell, you can barely get them on the car.

 

[908ssp]

Honestly I think you should sell them before you damage them and they are worthless.

 

[frank s]

Actually just went out and checked, my front spring rate is 225. cant manage to see my rear spring rate yet

If I were this deep into it, I'd be carrying the bare springs to someone with the appropriate measuring device, and dispel all doubt.

Then I'd decide which authority to trust with regard to which rates work best in my application.

If the measurement doesn't come pretty close to the recommendation, I'd motor on over to Mr Eibach's place, or his local representative, and carry away the right-rate springs, either without charge, or with a bonus in my favor.

 

[steve13gt]

Seriously dude, cut your losses and sell those coilovers to someone who knows what they are doing. If you don't understand the principals of spring rate (which you clearly don't) there is NO WAY that you will ever get the adjustments dialed in.

Hell, you can barely get them on the car.

No I am not a racing guru, nor do I know the facts of setting up a car. I don't know why I am the one being attacked here. I came with a question, I am still trying to find a resolution through Eibach.

Barely got them on the car.. buddy, I am a licensed tech.. How would you know my abilities to install them, were you here watching?

And how would I damage them 908ssp, eibach fucked up and won't own up to it. These were 100% installed as per the instructions, there wasn't a single thing on my behalf that I did incorrectly..

Bunch of keyboard warriors, not sure why I look like the bad guy here!

I forgot everyone was born knowing what spring rates worked with mustangs, and which didn't. I bought a complete kit, that is supposed to be already engineered to work with my car..

Forget I ever asked

 

[steve13gt]

Your springs are on upside down. That will fix your bump stop problem and most likely fix your “mount problem”.
Tried both ways, no difference. So I put them back to Eibach's suggested way

The collar that goes between the springs has the bump stop trapped and with the topout spring collapsed and on upside down its probably wedged up against the top mount so it wont spin.

Nope, lots of room around the bump stops

Have you checked the tires for clearance yet? You may need to clearance the swaybar mounts. Best to get that figured out now since you have to take them apart anyway.

There is adequate space

Regardless of the spring semantics you still put it together upside down.

Well that's not right. If they came out of the box like that Eibach put them together wrong.

What are the numbers and the front and rear springs? It would probably be a good time to see if they sent you the correct springs too.

They are not upside down, a helper spring is used on the top, a tender spring is used on the bottom. My set up uses a helper spring, as is assembled as intended.

Those spring rates are wrong and Eibach knows it. How they managed to release that erroneous info is beyond me. The heavier springs go in the front the lighter springs in the back.

Maybe true! but Eibach won't admit it

....... This thread=FAIL. It sounds to me like you are talking to a dipshit employee who is clueless (all too common nowadays when you call) or you got shipped the wrong kit for your car. People have posted tons of pictures with it the opposite way and you're still not convinced. You know, maybe its just me because I have a nice roomy heated garage with a lift and all, but I would at least take it apart and try it the other way and see. If it works then you can call Eibach and demand they fire the idiot who put your kit together and also the idiot who keeps talking to you on the phone. If it doesn't, take it apart again and put it back like you have it. Its a pain in the ass yes, but you sure spent enough money on the stuff to at least get it working right. Trial and error is sometimes necessary in troubleshooting.

Didn't work unfortunately

My KWs from Roush and the M&M top mounts for the Eibachs that GMitch has both use an upper bearing to allow the free rotation of the shock body spring assembly. Your set up doesn't make any sense with no thrust bearing. The ball joint is not designed to be freely turning with the weight of the car on it.

Is the spacer between the top of the spring and the upper spring seat a bearing? It looks like a thing sandwich in the assembly drawing.

With the upper and lower pillow block bearing spacers in the pillow block bearing assembly do they turn freely? Pushing them together will they spin? Is there a free turning thrust bearing inside the pillow block?

There is absolutely no radial/thrust bearing. Those things between the upper spring seat are simply "adapters" as Eibach calls them



Anyone on this forum have experience with this Kit, and not the older Kit.. Or did I buy the first set ever....... 35125.713 not 35101.713 They have their differences!!!!

 

[908ssp]

There is no such thing as helper spring on a coil over. Only tender springs. All they do is take up space so you can use a shorter spring. The shorter spring has a higher rate while using smaller wire. If they made the spring without a tender spring it would have to be longer and made of fatter wire to end up at the same rate as the smaller spring and it would weight more.

 

[steve13gt]

Spring SETUPS


Please Read

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Oh, boy... So, instead of a traditional "progressive rate" spring, which plots as a curve (rate vs. distance compressed), Eibach is suggesting that the plot should look like a knee (linear "soft" rate suddenly transitioning into a linear "hard" rate)? "Sudden" is a word that should NEVER be applied to suspension dynamics! That "sudden" transition is only going to unsettle the chassis, just what you don't need. Yes, I know that the two springs do compress together, however a "soft knee" or "hard knee" is still a knee. Why do you think all the true "race" spring setups are linear? That's one of the benefits of coil-overs, access to a wide range of linear rates. A tender spring I can understand. A "helper" spring just doesn't make any sense.

Also, about Eibach's new part number: The strut geometry hasn't changed since the 2005 MY, nor have the attachment points. The upper strut MOUNT has changed, but that was eliminated when you put the CC plates in, so I don't understand why they would change the part number...

 

[steve13gt]

Dave, I don't know why they changed either, they just mentioned that the 2013 was lighter in the front. Whether it is or isn't don't shoot me.

The helper spring is such a light spring it is fully compressed unless the car is jacked up, you can easily compress it with one finger. Its simply there just to "hold" the spring in place when the car is jacked up. It really doesn't even have a spring rate, I don't think Eibach even lists one. My spring rate is completely linear, just using the main spring when I am actually driving. Hope that makes sense...

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Then that makes it a "tender," rather than a "helper," no? Either way, it sounds like Eibach has really dropped the ball on this one.

Honestly, I think your choices are either to ditch the Eibach kit altogether and go with a competing setup (KW, AST, etc.), or to grab the MM CC plates, real springs (300F/275R at a minimum!) and call it a day.

 

[steve13gt]

No, I thought they'd be the other way to.. But according to the internet a tender actually has useable spring rate, and a helper is has close to none..


If it comes down to it, I can purchase new springs. but really if these springs are not what should be there, then Eibach should be sending me the correct springs free of charge. I will likely pick up the vorshlag CC plates, but they need a couple measurements that I cannot take right now. Car is all wrapped up for the winter

 

[modernbeat]

There is no such thing as helper spring on a coil over. Only tender springs...

Well....not quite. I've set up coilovers and struts with helpers, tenders, dual springs and even triple springs. It all depends on the application.

Here's a set of struts that went on a Subaru STi competing at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb. I used dual spring sets to get the car low, with about three inches of compression travel and 7-10 inches of real droop travel. This setup was done on paper, but we brought a dozen other spring sets with us and dialed it in during on-site testing.

Suspension packages that come out of Europe often have near-zero rate helper springs or low-rate tender springs to keep the spring seated on the perch at full droop to be TUV certified. Our a la carte suspensions are setup for reasonable street and track use and we often use the shortest reasonable spring to gain as much inboard tire clearance as we can. In come applications travel, or ride height is more important than inboard tire clearance and we accommodate it.

On the subject of what rate is the spring you got, you can take a few measurements and get a rough calculation of the spring rate. First Google hit has an online calculator:
http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

 

[steve13gt]

These are accurate rates. Our R&D department settled on these rates based on the motion ratio of the generation. The front struts do not need a lot of spring in order for the car to perform well. These rates were designed for everyday driving as well as weekend track events. If you plan on using an R comp with this setup or are building a dedicated track car, this coilover can accommodate a much higher rate (several hundred pounds higher).

Thank you!

That is what I got from Eibach, I asked why the change from 2010 to 2011, and they never replied... Who knows

For the record they are telling me 225 front, 250 rear

 

[Sam Strano]

How long can this go on???? The springs are freaking marked with the part number, which also happens to include the rate. It seems clear to me that they kind of just do what they want and whoever you talk to has no idea what is really happening. And now you know why I don't really tend to recommend those kits. Clearly being an "engineered" (and I use that term loosely) kit doesn't make things fool proof, or beyond question.

I don't doubt they've changed rates between years because they do all kinds of silly things. It's moot arguing about it.

 

[steve13gt]

I just want to know their reasoning for it, and if there is no reason behind it. I want correct spring rates. I also asked them why they do not use a thrust or radial bearing.

I could understand if I bought an ebay kit, but I honestly thought I was getting something half decent.

 

[Sam Strano]

There is no reasoning. Just like there is no reason that their 93-97 F-body springs were 200 pounds stiffer than their 98-02 springs, when the cars weighed within about 20 pounds of each other.

Some engineer, assumed something and this is where you get. 225/200... yeah, that's about Ultralite or Pro-kit kind of rates. I'm sure that's what happened on the F-body example too. Some new was put in charge. Had no idea why things were done, probably has no real idea about setting up a car, and just did what they assumed was right.

It's a joke. The car's chassis hasn't changed. The weight hasn't increased that much relative to the fact it's already a 3500 pound car, 2 maybe 3%?

And there is no such thing as the "correct" spring rate, eveyone will have an opinion. Eibach thinks theirs is correct. I don't run or recommend the same spring rate on every customer's car.

The lesson here is not to buy a name. Talk to people, like say... ME, who not only sells what you have, but other options as well. I don't know what to tell you at this point. You have to decide what you want to do.

 

[steve13gt]

Do you know what the actual stock spring rates are for my car? Its a 2013 5.0 Track Pack

I know there isn't a correct spring rate, what I meant was, I want the intended spring rate or one that will generally work with my car. The springs on my car right now feel fine on the street (where the car will usually be) but I don't want "bad" performance on the track.

One lesson is for sure, I won't be buying Eibach again. They don't even answer emails...

 

[908ssp]

Well....not quite. I've set up coilovers and struts with helpers, tenders, dual springs and even triple springs. It all depends on the application.

Here's a set of struts that went on a Subaru STi competing at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb. I used dual spring sets to get the car low, with about three inches of compression travel and 7-10 inches of real droop travel. This setup was done on paper, but we brought a dozen other spring sets with us and dialed it in during on-site testing.

Suspension packages that come out of Europe often have near-zero rate helper springs or low-rate tender springs to keep the spring seated on the perch at full droop to be TUV certified. Our a la carte suspensions are setup for reasonable street and track use and we often use the shortest reasonable spring to gain as much inboard tire clearance as we can. In come applications travel, or ride height is more important than inboard tire clearance and we accommodate it.

On the subject of what rate is the spring you got, you can take a few measurements and get a rough calculation of the spring rate. First Google hit has an online calculator:
http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

Well then we're really having semantic issues here because I would not call those helper springs. Your picture really doesn't help in this discussion. Both those springs being as heavy as they are act at the same time at slightly different rates ending up some kind of proportional in between. Tender springs do that too but because they are so much lighter than the main springs their spring rate is inconsequential. Helper springs are springs that act at the same time like coil overs mounted on a car with leaf springs or air bags in coil springs for heavy loads. I also see you used the terms "helper" spring and "tender" spring to describe the same thing a spring so soft it does little more than act as a spacer since it completely collapses when the car is on the ground. Also in your example the short springs are on the bottom which makes more sense since it provides a more stable setup for the spring to collapse.

 

[LS1EATINPONY]

That is what I got from Eibach, I asked why the change from 2010 to 2011, and they never replied... Who knows

For the record they are telling me 225 front, 250 rear

Look at the spring on each strut. Each one will have a number that reads 0800.xxx.xxxx The last 4 digits should be the spring rate so you will know exactly what you have.

 

[steve13gt]

I know I have 225 in the front, I can't check the rear right now though unfortunately. .