First Track Day

[claudermilk]

After many years of autocross, and inching my way up to it, I finally tracked the car this weekend. What a blast!

I've spent the last 18 months getting myself comfortable with the S197 (coming from 20-ish years in FWD cars with lots less power). After happily sliding around in the misting rain at last week's Solo II, I realized it's time to step up. Fortunately (?) the very next week--this last weekend--Speed Ventures was running at Auto Club Speedway. So, time to move from the parking lot outside to the track inside.

I went in thinking priority #1 is bring myself and the car home in one piece and #2 is to get comfortable at the higher speeds. After that is learn the course and build some speed. I paid for an in-car instructor for the first half of the day and it was worth it. He didn't have a lot to say, mainly guiding me around the course early on and pointing out where I could get on the power earlier or get a better line.

In that respect, I actually surprised myself. It felt natural flogging the car around the course and I figured out the line quickly (by the end of the day I was predicting where the newbie in front of me was going the blow the corner). I built confidence and speed much more rapidly than I anticipated and am further up the learning curve than I had planned or hoped for. Yay me!

The car performed extremely well. It's a '13 GT Brembo package with Recaros. Just about the perfect options short of a full track pack. The brakes did great, the pedal only got a little bit long towards the end of the afternoon sessions; I know I wasn't pushing the car to the ragged edge since it's all stock. Plenty of power and it was fun to finally be able to really let the pony run.

I now obviously have a more focused shopping list. Brake fluid, pads, and rotors are at the top of the list. I know Motul fluid and spare Centric rotors are pretty much a given. I'm not completely decided on the best pads (and do I want to have a dedicated set of pads/rotors for track just yet). Tires and a set of wheels for track is probably next--the one day done et up these new tire.

Now that I've done a track day on stock suspension, I see where things can improve. The car felt pretty balanced--but again I wasn't pushing it to 10/10s yet. It still moved around on the soft springs & dampers a lot. I'll probably go out of order a bit & grab some Koni yellows since they are on sale right now. I also see the need for a better shift box, so plans for an MGW are not solid--one will be in the car eventually; my shifts were deliberate out of necessity & mechanical sympathy.

At the end of the day I had an absolute blast and am hooked. I accomplished my goals for the day and then some. Watching the video from the day, the differences in how I drove the car as the day went on--even lap to lap--is obvious. While I was doing some point-bys in the morning sessions, I didn't have any to do in the afternoon--the tables had turned & I was the passer, not the passee. Video & stills will be coming later once they are processed.

 

[Boaisy]

Separate tire set is a must for the road courses. Had a local around here burn up the tires on his LS a month after he bought it. The left front was down to the cords, mainly because MIR tears up the left front anyways. Doing 4 autocross events per month, March to November, I would eat up my DD tires within a year which is why I've been trying for the past two years to get a separate set. Something else always needs replaced when I get close enough to them :/. This year is looking good though.

 

[c_reber]

Sounds like a lot of fun. (actually I know it was, cause I was there too )

Did you have timing? If so, how did your times improve throughout the day?

You had stock wheels/tires? How fast going into turn 1?

I would highly recommend a set of "track" pads, the brembo fronts are so easy to change, it's worth it to change them out for every event. I use Hawk DTC 60 front and rear. But there are plenty of options (check around for used pads too - can save a LOT on some decent used pads).

Let's see those videos! I took a couple videos, but my gopro always has poor audio, shakey, and honestly my videos are usually a bit boring anyway!

 

[2013MustangGT]

Sounds like you had a great time. The list of mods for the track are endless. If you intend to do autoX and road courses talk to those here that do both to see how they set their cars up, could help you save some money by not having to do trail and error.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Do some searches in this corner-carvers section and you will find a laundry list of ideas and mods for making the car more reliable, safer, and making yourself a better driver (driver mod).

Number one item on any S197 is brake fluid, pads, and lines (in that order). After that it is usually tires and then some smart suspension updates. And then it gets crazy...

Good luck, and keep searching previous posts.

 

[claudermilk]

c_reber, what car? I saw a couple of other S197 Mustangs there. A Sterling Gray GT500 was in the Blue group with me (I ended up outrunning him most of the day ). I saw another DIB GT with wheels on a bumper rack, but never got a chance to chat with him. I deliberately did not rent a transponder, but did have Trackmaster running on the phone. It says I got down to a 1:58 in the 4th session; I'm not sure how good of a lap that is, but it's a lot better than my tentative early ones. Again, my main focus was learning & gaining confidence--and not crashing.

I found the internal mic on the GoPros sucks for our use. I got an external and had it taped under the edge of the trunk. For autocross, I've taped it to the license plate, but felt this was a safer spot; it's now my new permanent place as the audio was just as good, and the mic was nicely protected. What I'm using is the GoPro USB-to-3.5m converter, a 25' 3.5mm cable, and an Audio Technica Pro-24CM. I saw that mentioned in a few places around the 'net and it works great. The video is coming along, it's just taking forever to process & upload.

I have been semi-lurking here for a while. This forum has helped me focus my long, vague wishlist for the car. Between the entertaining arguments there is a ton of very useful information, and you guys have probably forgotten more than I know about this stuff.

Like Terry said above (and may times before): fluid, pads, lines. I took it a little easy on the braking knowing I was all stock and the car actually did better than I expected. So, those three items are the absolute #1 top of the list before I hit the track again. I'm looking at Motul 600 (I need to double check the capacities so I order the right quantity), probably the Vorshalg or TPS lines. I'll also end up getting a set of the Centric rotors from Vorshlag--cannot beat the price and I have paid attention to Terry's posts on that. I'm undecided on pads. Go with dedicated track pads (like the CarboTechs Terry suggests) and swap at the track or the evening before, or find a good compromise compound.

After that, I know tires & wheels are the biggest thing. I am thinking a set of 18" with some takeoffs. I need to find where I can get tires without breaking the bank (I'll be throwing some searches here--it has to have been discussed). A separate set of track wheels and tires also implies additional infrastructure; I'll need to look into one of those little Harbor Freight utility trailers to set up as a tire trailer. A guy running a boosted Miata parked next to me & had a nice little setup just like what I'm thinking about. It's small enough I can stash the whole thing beside the house between use with a little assembly/disassembly.

Once that's handled, I'll look at suspension, brake cooling, etc. The car does move around at track speeds, it's certainly a revelation & eye-opener the first time. I also get the complaints with the MT82 shifter box--my shifts were rather deliberate all day; an MGW unit & Whiteline bushing are definitely in my future.


As for the driver mod, I think I did pretty well. I can tell in the videos just by the engine note the progression. The morning sessions were tentative and I was giving several guys point-bys. In the afternoon sessions I didn't need ot give any point-bys; in part they had us sorted by times better, and in part because I seemed to be one of the faster guys out there. I was the one running guys down instead of vice-versa.

Now some pics (by CaliPhotography)

 

[2008 V6]

Glad Ya- All had a blast. I worked but that covers the bills & car not ready & found new problems. Chuckawall is next then Button Willow. I will be at Button Willow & very much hope to meet everyone there.
Overall results below

2/15/14

http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx

2/16/14

http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx

Pony Car Challenge – This was there first event. Hopefully more will show at further events. The Corvette challenge looked like a goood turn out.
Reber - quite a bit faster than the other in his group

http://svc.speedventures.com/fly.aspx?layout=series_standings&series=610

 

[c_reber]

c_reber, what car? I saw a couple of other S197 Mustangs there. A Sterling Gray GT500 was in the Blue group with me (I ended up outrunning him most of the day ). I saw another DIB GT with wheels on a bumper rack, but never got a chance to chat with him. I deliberately did not rent a transponder, but did have Trackmaster running on the phone. It says I got down to a 1:58 in the 4th session; I'm not sure how good of a lap that is, but it's a lot better than my tentative early ones. Again, my main focus was learning & gaining confidence--and not crashing.

I found the internal mic on the GoPros sucks for our use. I got an external and had it taped under the edge of the trunk. For autocross, I've taped it to the license plate, but felt this was a safer spot; it's now my new permanent place as the audio was just as good, and the mic was nicely protected. What I'm using is the GoPro USB-to-3.5m converter, a 25' 3.5mm cable, and an Audio Technica Pro-24CM. I saw that mentioned in a few places around the 'net and it works great. The video is coming along, it's just taking forever to process & upload.

I was in a white `13 with green (brake dust colored now) wheels. I was in the green group. I saw your car once, because I remember seeing that mic out of the trunk. Would love to hear it when you get it posted.

1:58 is an awesome time for auto club. Congrats! Acutally with stock tires, suspension and brake pads, that is an Incredible time!

After reading the pony car rules again, I'm not sure if I need to be classed up 1 higher due to my lower control arms? (I did talk to Aaron about the tires and he said 140+ treadwear tires will be ZERO points, and 100-139 treadwear is 1.5 points). Either way, kind of sucks only 3 ponies were in the challenge, when I saw at least 10 mustangs running.

 

[foolio2k4]

Under 2:00 is a great time at Auto Club.

I was also planning on going out this past weekend but was holed up installing my whiteline watts link.

 

[claudermilk]

Looking at the data more carefully that was the in lap. Oopsie. Still learning a lot of stuff here, including how to read the data from the app.

The best real lap the app recorder was 2:06.980. It looks like I was running around 2:08-2:11 times in general. Looking at the results it looks like I would have been right in the mix on the PCC. That kind of surprises me. Maybe over time I'll get down closer to that time. I know I left a lot on the table, but posting a fast time was not the goal for the day. I want to walk up to the limits rather than sprint & blow by them.

I have the video edited & mostly uploaded (session 4 is still going). So here it is. I know, lots of long video--but I did edit down the beginning & ending. I'll also do a shorter highlights compilation with some external video shot by a friend.

Session 1. I know this looks tentative, because I was. Taking it easy & getting a feel for the car at speed and the course layout. It gets kind of exciting at about 18:15; looks expensive.


Session 2. Still tentative, but less so.


Session 3 - Now I'm on my own, feeling mostly comfortable with the car & course. Starting to get on it. You can hear the difference in engine note. I'm now getting used to the idea of running close at speed to get a point-by. I also learned afterwards just how much time the GoPro battery gives me. Now I know to charge it after every other session--probably should after every session to be sure.


Session 4 - More comfortable, and faster. I also managed to get gridded up nearer guys running my pace, so i have a lot more open track to play on. Edit: this comment belongs here: Trackmaster shows lap 3 as my best of the day (if I'm reading the data right, that would be #3 after the out lap).



Oh, and yes, the Z driver was oblivious, slow, and annoying.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Better to buy a second battery and have them both charged beforehand.


Norm

 

[claudermilk]

I was thinking that myself. I do keep a few appropriate cables & sockets in the console junk space, so I was able to charge up between session, but a spare battery would be better.

I got the last session linked for those who want to look. I know it's a lot of video & interesting mainly to myself.

 

[c_reber]

Great videos, and like you said, the audio works well! I will try to post a video when I have time to download them to the computer. I think I only recorded 1 or 2 sessions.

Nice progression form the first session to the 4th.

And I forgot you were only going on Sunday, I was only there on Saturday. Guess I didn't see your car after all. LOL

I also asked to be changed to one higher class in the PCC. They said my lower control arms give me another 1.5 points. Which would bump me up a class. So I'll still be first in that class (and the last LOL only one car in PC5 class).

I doubt I'll be at the next one, but hopefully will see you out there sometime this year.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Nice progression form the first session to the 4th.

This ↑↑↑.

Mid 2:20's first session to low/mid 2:teens second session to high 2:0x's with a 2:07 (as good as reading GoPro timing past a fixed point goes).

I too have found the GoPro battery limit to be about an hour, in much the same fashion. Too bad they don't run longer or you might have seen what appears to have been the demise of a suicidal bug sometime after 7:25 in 3rd session.

Maybe somebody has a suggestion about where to better mount the GoPro for late afternoon sessions.


Norm

 

[claudermilk]

Thanks. I am pretty pleased with the progression through the day. I need to check with SV how they advance you through the groups, but I think that at least for ACS, I'm probably done with the noob run group....which surprises me. I've been so used to struggling with this beast on an autocross course that I went in presuming I'd have my ass handed to me by about everyone. That didn't turn out to be the case, especially as I gained comfort and confidence in the car and myself. Both the car and I are much happier hunting apexes than dodging cones. To me it's obvious in the video.

Here is the lap time data from the Trackmaster app. I'm taking it with a grain of salt as a) I am still learning how to use it, and b) it's off the internal GPS on the phone. It's still really nice to be able to look at this & get a sense of what I did (it also blows my mind that a smartphone + a $6 app gets this data where it took thousands of dollars just a few years ago).

Session 1
1 02:42.8
2 02:27.3
3 02:33.6
4 02:26.5
5 02:24.5
6 02:22.7
7 02:24.5

Session 2
1 02:31.2
2 02:44.2
3 02:32.7
4 02:23.3
5 02:21.4
6 02:16.0
7 02:13.0
8 02:11.9

Session 3
1 02:29.0
2 02:16.3
3 02:16.6
4 02:13.7
5 02:10.9
6 02:10.2
7 02:12.3
8 02:15.4

Session 4
1 02:10.1
2 02:08.0
3 02:07.0
4 02:09.7
5 02:10.0
6 02:10.3
7 02:10.6
8 02:14.2
9 02:09.9
10 02:09.0


In looking at the video, I've noted a few things I already see I need to work on:
- Hit the damn apexes!
- On the power earlier and stick with it more.
- When approaching a slower car, get closer to make it obvious I'm faster & want by.
- Coast less. Get from gas to brakes more quickly & brake harder.
- Learn to trust the car more.

 

[NoTicket]

I tried to use Trackmaster for quite some time, but it is just a crashy mess. Especially when you try and hook it up to an external GPS. I highly recommend taking a look at RaceChrono as it is free and has been pretty reliable.

Next up would be Harry's Lap Timer, which was recently ported from iOS to Android. This particular app has promise, and I personally love it, but it has also crashed mid way through a session multiple times.

At the current time the most reliable source of accurate data that I have found is RaceChrono hooked up to a bluetooth GPS.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

In looking at the video, I've noted a few things I already see I need to work on:
- Hit the damn apexes!
- On the power earlier and stick with it more.
- When approaching a slower car, get closer to make it obvious I'm faster & want by.
- Coast less. Get from gas to brakes more quickly & brake harder.
- Learn to trust the car more.

And the above is what makes you ready to advance to the next run group...

Take a look a your vid again, and pay VERY strict attention to the three cardinal points on each corner: Turn-in, apex, track-out. Look specifically at the berms, and you'll notice a good deal of rubber deposited on them. That means that they have been run over... repeatedly! When approaching a new track (or trying to refine your line), you can do a lot worse than following that "black arc" all the way through.

1) apex: You're absolutely right, you have GOT to hit them! A lot of your corners were showing you 6' or more off, and that really tightens up the corner. For your next outing, plan on actually driving across them (especially the heavily rubbered ones!) on your out-lap, to get a feel for which ones you can hit, and which you can't. If it feels comfortable at lower speeds (with less load transfer), then they'll be fine to use at higher speeds (where the inside is very much unloaded). The extra two feet you can get makes a marked difference in the radius of the corner.

2) Power-on. From your autocross experience, you already (should) have a pretty good feel for vehicle balance, as well as car-control skills. Next time out, flip your mind-set around, and instead of trying to get back on the throttle earlier, focus on staying off the throttle for the least possible amount of time. Get mad every time your foot has to come off the floor!

3) Passing strategy. Assuming your run group restricts passing zones and also requires a point-by, start anticipating passes as you approach slower traffic. In a non-passing zone, get right up to them and watch their mirrors for eye contact, so you know that they know you're back there and want to get by. Then back off! There's no point in crowding them, and it only hampers your ability to get off the corner properly. When you're approaching a passing zone, at the last corner preceeding it, drop back just a bit more, and get a SOLID run at the corner, so that as you exit, you already have overtake speed built up, and are closing in fast. He saw you, and knows you want by, so plan on getting by. At exit, pull offline and start to make your move. If he gives you a point-by, you are already in the right place on track, with overtake speed, and the pass happens quickly, early in the passing zone, and with zero drama. If he DOESN'T give the point-by, it's a piece of cake to bail out of the pass (you're going straight at that point, so lift or brakes both work) and drop back in behind him. If you follow through the corner on his (slower) bumper, and wait for the point-by, there will be a pretty serious lag as you see the point, decide to make the move, pull out, then accelerate. That will put the pass late in the passing zone, and you may run out of room before it happens... By anticipating, your momentum is impacted less, and the pass happens more quickly and safely. This is all part of the mental aspect of track driving.

4) Coasting. Ugh, what can I say? This is where more time is lost than anywhere else. Your mental approach should be (as mentioned in #2) "foot to the floor 100% of the time," and begrudge those points when you simply CAN'T do that. That means charging into the braking zone, braking for as short a period of time as possible to get to your entry speed, and then IMMEDIATELY get back on the gas and start fighting to get that foot back down to the floor.

5) This is probably one of the more difficult things to do, particularly if your setup is a bit touchy or squirreley. That said, however, physics apply, and "random things" just don't happen. If you spin, it's because YOU made an error, or something broke, not because "the car just decided to." The car will do EXACTLY what you tell it to do, and the real trick is deciding exactly what to ASK the car to do. Biggest thing to remember is how load-transfer affects the grip circle! You might just find (it shocked me!) that you're more stable in mid-corner under power, where the load transfers rearward and plants the back end of the car, as opposed to "maintenance throttle" where the load isn't shifted. NOTE: This presupposes you can find and hit the line through the corner! EVERYTHING starts with the line!

It looks like you had some serious fun, keep it up!

 

[jayel579]

In looking at the video, I've noted a few things I already see I need to work on:
- When approaching a slower car, get closer to make it obvious I'm faster & want by.

3) Passing strategy. Assuming your run group restricts passing zones and also requires a point-by, start anticipating passes as you approach slower traffic. In a non-passing zone, get right up to them and watch their mirrors for eye contact, so you know that they know you're back there and want to get by. Then back off! There's no point in crowding them, and it only hampers your ability to get off the corner properly. When you're approaching a passing zone, at the last corner preceding it, drop back just a bit more, and get a SOLID run at the corner, so that as you exit, you already have overtake speed built up, and are closing in fast. He saw you, and knows you want by, so plan on getting by. At exit, pull offline and start to make your move. If he gives you a point-by, you are already in the right place on track, with overtake speed, and the pass happens quickly, early in the passing zone, and with zero drama. If he DOESN'T give the point-by, it's a piece of cake to bail out of the pass (you're going straight at that point, so lift or brakes both work) and drop back in behind him. If you follow through the corner on his (slower) bumper, and wait for the point-by, there will be a pretty serious lag as you see the point, decide to make the move, pull out, then accelerate. That will put the pass late in the passing zone, and you may run out of room before it happens... By anticipating, your momentum is impacted less, and the pass happens more quickly and safely. This is all part of the mental aspect of track driving.

Everything Dave put here is great, one of the best pieces of advice is here. Set them up before had then back off!! Our cars can out drag race almost every car you'll meet on the track. You do not want to "spook" the driver ahead of you. If you crowd them they might only be looking at their mirrors instead of the road; which is a bad thing, especially in beginner run groups. I generally wave if someone comes up on my rear bumper to let them know I know they are there. Off line entry and exits are some of the best things to learn if you get late point bys and I find them really fun.

 

[Norm Peterson]

One thing I noticed in watching the 4th session video (yesterday) was that on the laps right after the fastest lap (2:07), you were wide of the T9 and T12 apexes by more than I remember happening before that time. Thoughts? Dave?


Norm

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Set them up before had then back off!! Our cars can out drag race almost every car you'll meet on the track. You do not want to "spook" the driver ahead of you. If you crowd them they might only be looking at their mirrors instead of the road; which is a bad thing, especially in beginner run groups. I generally wave if someone comes up on my rear bumper to let them know I know they are there. Off line entry and exits are some of the best things to learn if you get late point bys and I find them really fun.

+1 to all of the above!

PARTICULARLY in the novice groups, give the other guy some room! The "bumper bully" thing really doesn't work well with someone who is potentially task-saturated in the cockpit of the car ahead of you. If they spend their time worrying about you crawling into their trunk, they start missing braking points, which blows the turn-in point, which then blows the line in the corner. Net result? THEY'RE slower through the corner, and since you're tucked right in with them, so are you... Not a good bet.

By "knocking on the door" and then backing off, you let them concentrate on driving through the corner to the best of their ability, while you simultaneously grease that same corner, gaining perhaps 7-10MPH in overtake speed without having to rely on raw horsepower.

Any sort of point-by pass is what I call "contract passing." It requires cooperation from both drivers to pull off, and that in turn requires communication. By getting right up to their bumper ("knocking on the door") you have communicated your intention to pass. A wave, or my personal recommendation, a quick tap on the rear-veiw mirror from the lead car, communicates their awareness that you are there and that they intend to let you by after the corner (or next passing zone). You backing off to get a run just lets them focus on their drive, and sets up the pass cleanly and easily.

I'm not a HUGE fan of the wave from inside the lead car, since that can easily be mis-understood to be the "Oh, crap! Trouble ahead! Back off!" unofficial signal. A tap on the rear-view is a pretty much unmistakable signal of "I see you."

Also, don't forget the courtesy wave as you fly by! It's nice to say thank you, and makes a point-by much more likely if you're considered a "good guy" on track.

Also, remember that if you get a point-by, you are NOT required to take it! Yes, you may have the horsepower to "kill" the car ahead, but if they rocket away from you in a particular corner, you may want to "wave-off" the point-by (communication, again!) and see if driving in their tire-tracks doesn't show you a new angle to take with respect to that troublesome corner. Also, if you don't think you can safely complete the pass and drift back on-line before the braking zone for the next corner, you may want to wave-off and set up the pass for the next zone. No reason to chop off somebody's nose or brake-check them deep into a passing zone. Yes, you could go in off-line, but in the HPDE-1/Novice level groups, the real key is to focus on hitting the line consistently. Safe the "live" offline stuff for -3 or intermediate.

Offline driving: This is one of those things that I think should be mandatory exercises in the HPDE-1/Novice groups. Pick a session later in the day, and have everybody drive the right edge of the track for a lap, then cross over to the left edge for a lap, then let 'em go. A) it lets people feel exactly what "marbles" do to traction, B) lets people figure out that just because they're WAYYY offline, there still IS traction out there, and it's not a guaranteed wreck, and most importantly, C) Opens the door to side-by-side drills, once people get comfortable with running through a corner offline. With an on-board instructor, you can also discuss going deeper into a braking zone for the outside line, or the need to brake earlier for the inside line. Get the students heads out of the car, and get 'em thinking. Maybe not the best thing to focus on with a true newbie, but for somebody with a few days under their belt, could be a valuable exercise!