Fitting a 460 BBF and C-6 trans into an s197....the "lower buck" way

Discussion in 'Hardcore Tech=*MOTOR SWAPS*' started by 83-88T-Bird Guy, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Let me start off by saying that this is not so much a "build" project as it is a "fitting" exercise.
    I have different plans for my blue 2005 GT later. I'm just posting these pics for informational purposes for those that might be curious how a 460 will fit into an s197 chassis.
    However, because I bought the car as a rolling chassis and was already fitted with a AJE tubular k-member and a BMR lower radiator support, I thought I would spend some time to see how everything related to the 460 swap fits and then fab up the engine mounts and trans cross member for the C-6 auto trans.
    I do have plans later to use all these parts ( including the tubular k-member) on my red 2005 V-6 ( in the 1st pic)

    I have several goals in mind to keep the swap costs down:
    * I want to be able to use a 14 x 3 inch Moroso hi-flow open element air cleaner under the stock hood
    * I want to be able to retain the stock s197 fan assy.
    * I want to be able to use a standard length 460 water pump and clear the s197 fan
    * Use readily available 460 swap headers

    I have a thread on my racing page on FB with all of this info:
    https://www.facebook.com/Almack-Racing-230363294062512/

    I am using parts I have laying around so please excuse the rusty bare block and dirty transmission. These are for fitting purposes only.

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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  2. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    I tried a set of large Hooker brand CJ long tube headers ( for a 460 Fox swap). The passenger side fit very nice. On the driver's side, the # 6 and 7 cylinder tubes cleared the steering shaft but because the Fox swap headers are designed to make the #8 tube go up and over the steering shaft, there is not enough of a gap between the steering shaft and the frame rail on the s197

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    So the next thing I tried are my 460 headers from my 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe.
    I just so happens that Fox swap 460 mid length headers fit perfect in the s197....both sides. Plenty of room on the passenger side

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  3. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Driver's side...plenty of room.
    (However, the engine sits all the way back to within 3/4 " of the firewall)

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  4. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    This is a shot from under the car on the driver's side. The AJE straight bar that connects both sides has been removed in this photo ( loose bolt shown) I believe a custom bent bar will be needed to go between the back of the oil pan and the transmission

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  5. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Just gotta fab up the brackets to connect the block to the AJE k-member mount stands. AJE makes these 460 swap brackets but I don't think they would work with the engine position I have with this car. Most people move the engine forward but I want to be able to use a stock 460 water pump so mine is set back real close to the firewall

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    Plenty of floor clearance for the mid length Fox swap headers. These are the headers I originally built to fit my '87 460 Turbo Coupe T-Bird

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  6. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    A little up close and personal time with a BFH provided some clearance for the transmission servo on the right side ( ignore the old trans cooler line. I had yet to remove it out of the way)

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  7. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Very little clearance between the big Canton oil pan and the steering rack. One option is to cut off the lower tabs that mount the rack to the k-member and lower the rack 1/2 to 5/8 inch. I do not want to alter the pan. I could use a stock F350 pan and that would lower the engine 3/4 inch


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    Cutting the mounting tabs on the AJE k-member for the steering rack and re-welding them lower looks tempting.


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  8. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    The '83-'97 F350 460 pan would be perfect. I have one of those as well and will fit it after I get the c-6 trans crossmember fabbed up

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    hookburn63 likes this.
  9. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    The engine is still high in the front but I have 1 of 3 options to lower it. It has a Canton pan now but a F350 oil pan would lower it another 3/4 inch


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  10. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    If I can keep the engine as far rearward as possible then I should be able to retain the s197 fan while using a standard length 460 water pump. It's going to be close by less than 1/4 inch


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  11. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    The left rear of the C-6 trans case barely clears the floorpan

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  12. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    How convenient....the s197 upper radiator hose lines up to the 460 t-stat housing


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  13. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Misc pics


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  14. Matthew Selby

    Matthew Selby Junior Member

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    Do you have a part number on the headers you used? If so can you email it to me at [email protected]. I don't usually get on here a lot or have a lot of time to get on here. I'm getting ready to start my s197 460 swap. Thank you
     
  15. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    CPR Parts in California shows the part # S460 for 79-95 Mustang 460 swap mid-length headers ( like in my pics )

    http://www.cprparts.com/products/headers/headers_sportsman.html

    There is a group on facebook dedicated to the 460 s197 swap. There are 4 of us doing active swaps. You should check it out:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/576060102874419/
     
  16. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Got the trans crossmember done. I made it adjustable because I have other plans for this car beyond the 460 fitting exercise

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  17. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Mission accomplished.
    I met my goals of getting the 460 to fit under the stock hood with a 14 x 3 inch air cleaner ( with the hood blanket intact) as well as get a stock Ford production line water pump to clear the stock s197 fan and radiator. All of this using a large Canton oil pan and not altering the AJE k-memeber.
    The s197 radiator would be fine for the track but not enough capacity for street driving. Next I am going to fit a Fox body large aluminum radiator and a '98 Contour fan setup in the car so it could be driven on the street ( eventually)

    ( The cogged water pump pulley is barely on the water pump hub because I do not want to drill the pulley pilot hole to 3/4 inch just yet. So there is another 3/8 inch clearance more I will get)

    The motor mount pics were before the final welding was done last week. These mounts set the block to rear 1 1/2 inches more than the AJE mounts do.
    This is also the highest a 460 block will sit in the chassis and still clear the factory p/s rack while using a large oil pan.

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    hookburn63 likes this.
  18. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    I had to add a 1/2 inch spacer on the carb to get the 14 x 3 Moroso air cleaner to fit the Holley carb just right. It makes the air cleaner sit higher than the top of the fenders

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  19. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    It all clears tho.
    I had to use an Edelbrock Torker II intake which is the lowest hi-flow intake I could find for the 460

     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  20. 83-88T-Bird Guy

    83-88T-Bird Guy forum member

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    Just out of curiousity, I wondered if I could add boost later if I wanted. So I fitted a Procharger carb bonnet on the setup. It clears as well :)

    I consider this fitting project a success


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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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