Heads on a N/A engine...

[freebass55]

Anyone done it? Please, let me know what you think. I am looking at the Livernois Stage 2 heads. What kind of performance enhancements can I expect? I really don't know if this is a good idea or not. Should cams be done at the same time, or are the stockers good? What do I need to know?

Anyone, please help me out.

Thanks.

Mods:
MGW Short Throw Shifter
Vogtland Springs
Anderson Ford Motorsport's Cold Air Intake
Saleen Underdrive pullies
FRPP CMCV Deletes
CHE k-member brace w/torque limiters
3 point Srut Tower Brace
Bassani catted x-pipe
Flowmaster Exhaust
FRPP - 4.10 rear gears
CHE Panhard bar & brace
CHE LCA's
CHE Anti-Squat Brackets
Custom slotted and cross drilled rotors
Akebono brake pads
CHE UCA

 

[Fastmover]

You need to talk to Jim III@JDM Or check out the article in MM&FF

 

[94tbird]

I dont think it is a cost effective mod for N/A with the stock compression

You need to figure out if you are going to go FI or not. If you are build the bottom end first with a slightly lower compression ratio. If you are staying N/A Build the bottom end with a Higher compression ratio

Then you do Heads and/or cams and will see the gains you want. I feel with the stock block/compression ratio, the minimal gains you wil lsee will not justify the cost

The stock heads and cams are really good. Just ask Don haha

 

[95PGTech]

Hi my name is Chris and I am one of the new Sales Associates at Team JDM. One of our shop cars, Jim III's yellow Saleen, is currently running a best of 11.51 @ 114 mph on our ported 3V heads. He runs Street Stang class at Fun Ford Weekends and we've actually had to put weight bars in the car to slow it down!!!

You can view more details about the car here:
http://www.teamjdm.com/speedlab.php

Given the relatively mild, bolt-on setup and mild weight reduction (and stock cams), we've had some pretty good success with this car. Nothing to shake a stick at, especially if you think about the drivetrain loss of the automatic.

It will be down at Fun Ford Orlando with Jim Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (29th, 1st, 2nd) if you would like to see the car in person or talk to Jim about it, or you can always call us at (732) 870-0770 anytime during buisness hours.

After he comes back from Orlando, he's stepping it up even bigger with a TCI transmission and high stall torque converter and some serious bumpsticks (it is still running stock cams!).

Some details on our 3V heads:

• 1mm oversize Manley stainless steel intake valves
• 1mm oversize Manley inconel stainless exhaust valves
• Manley Ovate wire springs
• Manley titanium retainers
• Brand new Ford valve stem seals
• completely assembled
• Serdi 3-angle competition valve job

These heads are perfect for your N/A, S/C, nitrous or turbocharged street/strip car and with stock cams are next to unnoticeable...until you open the taps that is! If you're looking to turn the wick up with the boost or increase the RPMs, these are the heads you need!

After you turn in your stock heads as cores, $2695.00 gets you a set of these proven bad boys. An additional $300 gets you a set of brand new Ford followers and lash adjusters, so all you have to do is drop in the cams of your choice and bolt them up to the bottom end.

Jim is our guinea pig for one of our new camshaft profiles which we are trying to get rolling by mid-spring 2008 so you guys can bring them to the track. Look for BIG things from JDM in the ways of S/C and N/A bumpsticks!

 

[US-1]

Given the relatively mild, bolt-on setup and mild weight reduction (and stock cams)......

You forgot to mention the bigger cubic inch engine.

 

[US-1]

Anyone done it? Please, let me know what you think. I am looking at the Livernois Stage 2 heads. What kind of performance enhancements can I expect? I really don't know if this is a good idea or not. Should cams be done at the same time, or are the stockers good? What do I need to know?

Anyone, please help me out.

Thanks.

Mods:
MGW Short Throw Shifter
Vogtland Springs
Anderson Ford Motorsport's Cold Air Intake
Saleen Underdrive pullies
FRPP CMCV Deletes
CHE k-member brace w/torque limiters
3 point Srut Tower Brace
Bassani catted x-pipe
Flowmaster Exhaust
FRPP - 4.10 rear gears
CHE Panhard bar & brace
CHE LCA's
CHE Anti-Squat Brackets
Custom slotted and cross drilled rotors
Akebono brake pads
CHE UCA

I'd do it. Cams at the same time. People were saying the same thing about the two valve engines five years ago. "Ported heads and cams don't deliver enough bang for the buck on a stock engine." Blah blah blah. These things have 10:1 compression from the factory. Be careful with your cam choice however. That is going to be where you either find your power or lose your ass.

 

[freebass55]

Welcome, Chris.

Ron, I am not really looking into building the bottom end yet. If I do that I am afraid that's all I'll have any money to do. Can I find a built engine that I could just drop in? I had originally said I wanted to keep this car N/A, but I had been persuaded lately to think a little different. I am trying to weigh my options.

 

[freebass55]

I'd do it. Cams at the same time. People were saying the same thing about the two valve engines five years ago. "Ported heads and cams don't deliver enough bang for the buck on a stock engine." Blah blah blah. These things have 10:1 compression from the factory. Be careful with your cam choice however. That is going to be where you either find your power or lose your ass.

What cams should I be looking at?

 

[don_w]

The stock heads and cams are really good. Just ask Don haha

It's true I run stock cams, but I do have Livernois heads.

 

[95PGTech]

You forgot to mention the bigger cubic inch engine.

Well we're not talking a 500 cubic inch Chevrolet power plant, the motor is only a 298CI at 11:1 static c/r and is run on the street every day.

If you think in terms of percentages, that's six percent more displacement than stock - it's a mild street/strip build, nothing radical. I'd like to think that the breathing modifications and the cylinder head/valvetrain modifications account for more than the bump in compression and displacement.

As 94tbird mentioned, the stock heads and cams are great pieces, but that doesn't mean there isn't always room for improvement. Selecting the correct pieces to work together as an entire assembly is the key to building a powerful engine with a large, usable, driveable powerband, you can't just throw any which bunch of parts at it and hope for the best.

Jim's car picked up 48 dyno-verified rear wheel horsepower from the shortblock and the ported heads, read into it what you wish about what of that is the heads and what of that is the shortblock.

 

[94tbird]

Right. I forgot don. I knew you had the stock cams for sure. i forgot about the heads, Brain fart

As far as JimIIIs car it is sure badass however hes got a stroker motor and a high compression NA motor so he is using that to help the heads make more power

A stock motor wont see the large gains like JimIII did because of the smaller cubic inch engine and the lower compression

 

[94tbird]

yes chris but the Cost of the products vs the HP gained most peopel cannot justify. There are other alternatives to making the power far cheaper

 

[US-1]

What cams should I be looking at?

I'll look around today at lunch and see what I can find that looks good for your modifications. As far as cost vs hp gains.....some people just don't want a power adder. For them the logical progression is increased airflow and cams/ported heads are their only choice. Plus, a lot of people look at ported heads and cams then compare that to the price of a power adder kit and they are not so hesitant about the heads/cams price.

 

[silverpoison]

PM sent

 

[freebass55]

PM sent

Replied...

 

[ZmanM3]

A short block wouldn't be that much more then the heads. Livernois has a thread about a group buy for short blocks on modularfords.

 

[chad05gt]

...seems a bit steep.

2600+ heads, 1000+ cams, + install... lookin' at 4k for 40hp... seems a bit steep.

 

[JimIII@JDM]

2600+ heads, 1000+ cams, + install... lookin' at 4k for 40hp... seems a bit steep.

Well id expect to see around 40-50 HP from a head and cam combination. Maybe more as we will find out from our cam tests we are currently running.

To pick up 40-50 HP on a NA car thats alot. Especially since we are working with such a small cubic inch motor. Not only that your not adding 50-80 lbs of a supercharger on the front of your car.

Plus have you ever seen the look on a guys face when you just beat his supercharged car?? I have.....its priceless!!!

NA mods heads and cams are a great idea, but i wouldnt do them untill i completed the bolt ons. Then after that id do cams, then heads, then the shortblock.


I gained 48 RWHP from the stroker 298 and the ported heads, its not exact and im putting on my flame suit but this is really were i feel the numbers cam from....

281 vs 298 = 15-20 HP
9.8 vs 11 compression = 10-15 HP
Ported Heads 15-20 HP

Now with this big ole' cams im throwing in......

JimIII

 

[95PGTech]

yes chris but the Cost of the products vs the HP gained most peopel cannot justify. There are other alternatives to making the power far cheaper

If we were trying to spend money to get the biggest dividends, we wouldn't be modifying cars, and we certainly wouldn't be building all-motor 281CID setups. He asked about heads, so I gave him an answer about heads, not whether or not they are justified - he has clearly already come to and crossed that bridge.

All modifications are "not worth it" on a lot of cars simply because everyone has assumed the factory pieces are competent enough and no one has had the money or the courage to try something different and push the envelope a little. While there are trends that show that the stock heads and cams can support a lot of power on F/I setups, there is no data out there at least that we can find that would suggest that there are not worthwhile improvements to be had in an N/A setup concerning the head and cam package.

 

[ArtQ]

Plus have you ever seen the look on a guys face when you just beat his supercharged car?? I have.....its priceless!!!
JimIII

Jim, I have no idea what your talking about...That's just mean!!!