Hope it's not a major problem

[wht67]

I am slowly and hopefully meticulously assembling my long block. A JDM stoker forged shortblock with ported big valve heads and Comp 127550 cams. I have the heads installed and torqued with factory head bolts. I also have placed the cams in the heads with Lubriplate on the journals and tourqued the cam caps. I was getting ready to install the locked out phasers on the cams and found that while I can turn the passenger side cam by hand with the phaser, I can't with the drivers side cam. I have double checked that the caps are in the right spot and facing the correct direction (looking at the number & > on each cap). Is this normal or are the caps too tight? Is it possible that the cam is not straight? What should I look for?

edit:
For my own curiosity, I used an old cam bolt and torque wrench to check what it takes to spin the cams. The passenger side spins with under 5 ft/lbs, the drivers side took over 20 ft/lbs

 

[skwerl]

Loosen the cam caps one at a time until you find the one that's binding.

 

[JUSTA3V]

What torque spec are you using?

And what cam is on what head? I.e. What bank is the left side cam on ?

 

[wht67]

What torque spec are you using?

And what cam is on what head? I.e. What bank is the left side cam on ?

Per the For assembly manual : (89 lb-in)

I thought the cams were head specific and will only fit the correct head. Let me go look...

 

[wht67]

Here are pics of the cams and the head they are in:

http://imgur.com/a/JMnbG

It is the "L" cam that is hard to spin

 

[ArtQ]

The front cam caps have a notch that restricts fwd reverse movement. The cam may be pushed further in to the groove than the other. Also you can't flip flop the cams the are different sizes

 

[wht67]

Loosen the cam caps one at a time until you find the one that's binding.

Went through and loosened all the caps, the snugged each one by itself (not fully torqued) and #3 seemed to be the one that is binding. Then I loosened #3, snugged the other 4 and could spin by hand. Snug #3 down and now it won't spin by hand....

 

[skwerl]

You may need to have a machine shop line bore it.

 

[BruceH]

Went through and loosened all the caps, the snugged each one by itself (not fully torqued) and #3 seemed to be the one that is binding. Then I loosened #3, snugged the other 4 and could spin by hand. Snug #3 down and now it won't spin by hand....

Any chance that #3 is upside down or that it got swapped with the other side?

I'm thinking you might have a warped cam. It could be checked with a set of v blocks and a dial indicator. You could probably get an idea just by using a dial indicator on the #3 journal with the cap off while you rotate the cam. You could use plastigauge to get an estimate of clearances. IIRC they should be .001" to .003".

 

[wht67]

I never had the caps off of both heads at the same time. I have the Trick Flow cam degree kit so I can use the dial indicator in it to check the cam. I will have to fab up a plate for the magnetic stand and grab some plastigauge. Thanks for the advice. I have never hoped for a warped cam before....

Any chance that #3 is upside down or that it got swapped with the other side?

I'm thinking you might have a warped cam. It could be checked with a set of v blocks and a dial indicator. You could probably get an idea just by using a dial indicator on the #3 journal with the cap off while you rotate the cam. You could use plastigauge to get an estimate of clearances. IIRC they should be .001" to .003".

 

[wht67]

My plastigage and steel plate came in so I finally got a chance to do some checks on my heads/cams.

Pretty sure the cam that is hard to rotate is straight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_ltoLVUrKk

So I moved on to checking the clearance on all the cam journals. I have never used plastigage before so I hope I did it right. Cam journals torqued to 89 in/lbs using sequence in Ford manual.

Looks like to me that the R head has smaller clearance. Now my question is are the clearances too low on the R head? Do I need that head machined to get the clearance better? Where do I get something like that done?

These are ported big valve heads so I hope I can save the head. I bought them used and sent them to Modular Head Shop where they checked them out (they checked the guides; replaced the followers, touched up the valve job, checked the springs and replaced one, checked straightness on the deck.) and gave them the thumbs up to run with the 127550 cams.

What do I do now?

 

[skwerl]

IMO call the machine shop. I believe they can fix that.

 

[BruceH]

It looks like they are all within tolerance. IIRC factory clearances are .001"-.003". Something is causing your binding. The #3 is still suspect for having had the cam cap swapped prior to your purchase imo. The big question is will it self machine? It should since you are in factory specs but it's a big chance to take.

Is there any chance that something else is misaligned or that you have the cams swapped side to side? I'm not sure if it's physically possible to get the cams on the wrong sides but I do know they are side specific.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

It looks like they are all within tolerance. IIRC factory clearances are .001"-.003". Something is causing your binding. The #3 is still suspect for having had the cam cap swapped prior to your purchase imo. The big question is will it self machine? It should since you are in factory specs but it's a big chance to take.

Is there any chance that something else is misaligned or that you have the cams swapped side to side? I'm not sure if it's physically possible to get the cams on the wrong sides but I do know they are side specific.

It is possible to put the driver side cam on the passenger side, you'll only find out when you put the timing chain on. You'll see the chain sticks out further than the guide. One my mechanics did it once.

 

[wht67]

It looks like they are all within tolerance. IIRC factory clearances are .001"-.003". Something is causing your binding. The #3 is still suspect for having had the cam cap swapped prior to your purchase imo. The big question is will it self machine? It should since you are in factory specs but it's a big chance to take.

Is there any chance that something else is misaligned or that you have the cams swapped side to side? I'm not sure if it's physically possible to get the cams on the wrong sides but I do know they are side specific.

I have a link to pics of the heads and you can see the R and L on the back of the heads and engraved on the cams by Comp so I think I have them in the correct head. I will call MHS this week and talk to them about it before I do anything drastic.

 

[BruceH]

As long as you have everything available how about checking the other side of the cam journals? Or at least the #3. Maybe the bottom is out enough to bind it?

FWIW I've used a chromed socket of the proper diameter and metal polish to get a few ten thousands more clearance. It was done when I helped a friend with a cam swap and the front cap retainer broke. We were able to use a spare #1 cap I had but it was a little off so I polished it with the socket and flitz metal polish. It worked. Probably not ideal but he had zero issues with it. We thought it was worth the chance because the only other option was a new head.

Someone is making cam bearings for the 3v head. I've seen them advertised and I've seen posts by lito about using them. They require machining but are a better option than replacing a head.

I would think that you could also ream the #3. By any chance have you measured the cam itself? Maybe it just needs a polish on #3.

 

[wht67]

As long as you have everything available how about checking the other side of the cam journals? Or at least the #3. Maybe the bottom is out enough to bind it?

FWIW I've used a chromed socket of the proper diameter and metal polish to get a few ten thousands more clearance. It was done when I helped a friend with a cam swap and the front cap retainer broke. We were able to use a spare #1 cap I had but it was a little off so I polished it with the socket and flitz metal polish. It worked. Probably not ideal but he had zero issues with it. We thought it was worth the chance because the only other option was a new head.

Someone is making cam bearings for the 3v head. I've seen them advertised and I've seen posts by lito about using them. They require machining but are a better option than replacing a head.

I would think that you could also ream the #3. By any chance have you measured the cam itself? Maybe it just needs a polish on #3.

I just recalled that I have a stock cam I could throw in there and check clearances with, see if it binds up like the 127550. I'll also try the plastigage on the bottom of the #3 journal. I remember a thread about replacing the broken cap.

 

[wht67]

I just grabbed my old stock head from my original engine to do some double checking and comparing. The stock cams in the stock heads have similar clearances that the "L" ported head has (~.015 to .002) and the stock cams in the stock heads will turn as easy as the "L" ported head (>5 ft/lb to rotate). I also threw a stock cam in the "L" ported head and got the same clearances. And the 127550 cams in the stock heads had .015 to .002 clearances on both "L" & "R" stock heads and both side turned with <5 ft/lbs. Since the clearances are similar to the "L" ported head and the "R" ported head has slightly tighter clearances (stock and 127550 cams have virtually identical clearances on the ported heads) I am guessing I need at least the "R" ported head align honed.

 

[wht67]

Well, after discussions with Livernois and Fox Lake, the heads may be trash. On advice from Fox Lake I cleaned the assembly lube from the cam and cam journal towers on the tight head; placed the cam into the head without the caps in place and the grasping the front and back of the cam, it rocked very noticeably with the #2 journal the pivot point. Fox Lake said that while they have a machine that can hone the journals, the bar is not long enough to go in one pass (ie. go in one end, then flip the head to get the rest and he said it's not as accurate as he would like). He had done some of that in the past but it was hit or miss as to whether the "fix" would work. Issues with maintaining oil pressure in the head led him to not do that type of work anymore.

Needless to say I am disappointed and frustrated. The good deal I got on these heads a couple of years ago turns out to just be a total hose job. Live and learn I guess.

Assuming the valve train parts are all good, Fox Lake said they can use them on another set of heads that they would port and assemble. So I need to locate a set of good cores.

 

[Wes06]

Try and see if anyone will do what the shop near Lito did?

machine the journals for bearings