Looking for information on E85 Fuel Swap

[NoviBlownGT]

I am about at the limits on what my setup can make on 93. So I'm either looking at going turbo or maybe going E85 will hold me over for a while. Ive read up quite a bit on the systems people are running. I just want to hear from some guys on here who made the swap.

I'm currently on GT500 Pumps, Duel BAP, Fore Rails and 60s. I have plenty of fuel for my setup now just not making the power I want.

Also I would like the next fuel system I purchase to be able to handle 800-1000 rwhp on E85.

So...

My questions are what pump setups, filters, lines, regulators and injectors are you guys running? Ive heard ID injectors are the way to go from numerous people. Thanks in advance!

 

[REDS197]

You should have plenty of pump with the BAP already Get the ID1000 and make the switch.

 

[95ragtop]

Get 80lbs or ID1000 injectors and you can support 700hp on E85 with what you have now, but that will be close to the max.

 

[JeremyH]

Fore and 1000cc's here.

 

[mach828]

60s and a single 465 here.

 

[Sactown]

return style fuel system, fore rails, ID1000's, I don't recall which fuel pump(s) we went with

 

[JoshK]

If he wants 800-1000 on E85 then he will need to switch up to return style.

Fwiw, I had the following fuel system last year and made 742whp on E85. The fuel pump duty cycle was at 86% iirc so it was very near the limit on being safe. I was also turbo which will get a little more bang for the buck sort of speak when talking fuel system capabilities.

GT500 dual pump kit
KB Competition dual BAP
Wire upgrade for BAP
-8an fuel line and high flow filter from the fuel hat to the rails
ID1000 injectors

 

[NoviBlownGT]

Will the E85 damage the GT500 pumps? ID1000's seem to be the way to go. Heard tons of great things about them. Also are you guys runinng E85 on a returnless setup?

 

[Saleen304]

I talked to Jeremy at S&H and bought the Bosch 1000s instead of the ID1000s. They are supposed to be just as good, but 60% of cost. I also upgraded the GT500 pumps with DW340m. I was told it should be good for 800 rwhp with my twin screw and return less system.

 

[roberts]

call and talk with Justin at Fore Innovations and also get ID1300 and not worry about running out of injectors!!!

 

[JeremyH]

Most modern pumps can run e85 but often aren't rated for it. You will see a decrease in pump life somewhere around 15% roughly vice running a e85 version pump or one that is actually built for it.

 

[BruceH]

I talked to Jeremy at S&H and bought the Bosch 1000s instead of the ID1000s. They are supposed to be just as good, but 60% of cost. I also upgraded the GT500 pumps with DW340m. I was told it should be good for 800 rwhp with my twin screw and return less system.

The bosch 1000cc injectors work very well. I don't personally see the need for a return setup like the others mentioned. It makes no sense to me. I'd rather have the ability to change fuel psi in the tune for different loads.

Return style runs your pumps at 100%. Returnless runs the pumps at what is needed. I always keep an open mind but to date nobody has had an engine failure due to a returnless system afaik.

The main benefit of a return system is that it's easier to tune for. Returnless does require some faith that the electronics will work. It involves the tune, frps, and fpdm to all communicate and work properly.

The return style I'm familiar with runs the pump at 100% and returns any unused fuel to the tank.

A returnless system will allow for lower psi at lower loads and higher psi at higher loads. This extends the range of the injectors significantly.

Your stock lines, GT500 pumps, etc will work just fine with e85. You might want to change the fuel filter after a tank or two of e85. The reason is that ethanol is a very good solvent and it will wash all the gasoline varnish deposits from your system. If you have been running e10 then there shouldn't be any gasoline varnishes in your system.

 

[mach828]

I don't understand why you'd run a returnless pump besides the walbro 465. Mine is at 78% duty cycle at 540hp with e85 and just a wire upgrade. My 340 maxed out at 490 with 91oct. I don't think it makes sense to go a return setup anymore. A few years ago there just wasn't any good returnless pumps, and 255 walbros were as good as it got. So you had to go return.

 

[JeremyH]

It's about power and flow. Both setups have pros and cons and can work when setup properly. I am all about beefing up the returnless setup and pioneered many things to do so for the 3v. But there is definitely a point where returnless cant keep up any more and where return is safer and more reliable and that's just due to the fundamental differences in how they work. And that's having all the flow always there at the rail vice having to ramp up and wait for it as you need it. (which becomes more evident at higher flow and power levels)

From my experience above 800hp or so on gas and 700hp or so e85 are where you want to consider switching over. Not that it is mandatory but more stable pressure with a mechanical regulator and all the flow already passing though the rails for the max power you make and your tuner will love you lol

If your serious about making 800-1000hp on e85 like the op mentioned you will absolutely want a return setup, no doubt its better suited for the task.

 

[mach828]

Guess I should have said doesn't make sense for most people. There is definitely a limit. 4 digit power numbers would probably be it. But I haven't tuned a car at that power level so I don't have the experience to say.

 

[BruceH]

Guess I should have said doesn't make sense for most people. There is definitely a limit. 4 digit power numbers would probably be it. But I haven't tuned a car at that power level so I don't have the experience to say.

It's one of those things where people will have different opinions. Just because you or I don't think it's necessary doesn't mean it isn't.

The highest I've had one of my motors was 699 on e85. I used returnless gt500 pumps with a single 40 amp bap and 970cc Bosch injectors. Worked great. I didn't see any issues with the fuel supply or a/f. I've done a lot of logging and just haven't seen an issue.

We do know that a return style works at higher levels. We also know that a return setup with larger injectors will need low pulsewidths to run properly at idle and lower rpms unless it's set to a lower psi like 3 bar. This is why the bosch 1000cc injectors are so popular imo. They work very well with a low pw.

IMO it comes down to how much do you trust technology and what are you willing to risk? I have no problem running something that makes sense to me but I'm also prepared to pay if I'm wrong.

I've done a few things with my builds that others consider taboo. So far so good.

 

[NoviBlownGT]

Thanks for all the great information guys! I definitely have a lot to consider. You guys are great!