Man Without a Country?

[retfr8flyr]

Why run a PVC, just run breathers and use that port for your vacuum. If you have big cams on that beast you may not have enough vacuum to run the system. You may need to add a vacuum booster of some sort.


Earl

 

[jsimmonstx]

Why run a PVC, just run breathers and use that port for your vacuum.

And run a hose from the breather to a catch can or something? Would I have to do that with both breathers?

EDIT =================

I'm going on the assumption that the brakes are vacuum assisted. I've made inquiries, but will probably verify that on my own tomorrow.

 

[retfr8flyr]

With a N/A engine like that I don't think you would even need a catch can, just some good breathers.


Earl

 

[durr4456]

Ain't nobody in Loozyana even know how to spell OBDII much less use one!!!!!!!!!!!

In Baton Rouge they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jsimmonstx]

I bought a T56 Magnum trans and QuickTime SFI-certified bellhousing yesterday - the shop that's helping with my swap bought it for a 351w fox body and after getting the motor in the engine bay, realized it wouldn't fit because of a) headers and b) clutch cable, so I bought it from them. I'm currently looking for the absolute best price on a Dart SHP block (so far, $1735). Once the block is ordered, I will be ordering the rotating assembly.



Pre-build Thinkin':


When I have nothing else to occupy my mind, I mentally go over the affected sub-systems, and try to anticipate any issues that might crop up. Keeping the EPAS is a relatively late development, so I was thinkin' on it this weekend.


I was looking at the EPAS (in pictures on the net), and it's looking like it's going to be a TIGHT fit, even after grinding off offending appendages and bracing. I am "concerned".



We're going to try to find a wrecked 2011/12 and get the EPAS off of it for the purposes of test fitment. Then, before bolting the k-member to the frame, we're gonna bolt it to the engine (while it's on an engine stand) and do our trial/error fitting with the EPAS. This will make it easier to get the EPAS on/off the K-Member, and the oil pan on/off the motor while modifying stuff.



I already know we have to mod the EPAS to bolt up the the BMR K-member, but the real issue lies in whether the EAPS/K-member assembly will fit in the space allotted by the oil pan (between the oil pump and the sump area).



The oil pan is going to be a Moroso 20520 7-quart, and the K-member is going to be the BMR KM012 (351 swap into S197). BMR said they could probably assist in clearancing the EPAS for their K-member, but I'm going to be on my own regarding the oil pan.


Oil Pan:

EPAS (on OEM K-member):

I have a Fox body available with a BMR K-member and a 351w with the same oil pan, so I can at least measure how much room the oil pan allows, but I won't know how much room is actually available until I can attach the K-member to the block with the oil pan installed, and then try to fit the EPAS. I'm hoping that (if necessary), we can ground off part of the the front of the EPAS. It looks like there's a tab running the length of the control unit that doesn't appear to do anything (in terms of bolting to it or supporting other parts).



If I can't keep the EPAS (which would be a huge bummer at this point), I'm going to have to spend an additional $700 on hydraulic power steering parts.

 

[retfr8flyr]

One option to keep the EPAS would be go with an external oil pump and modify the oil pan. This would give you the clearance you need and you should have plenty of room for the external pump.


Earl

 

[jsimmonstx]

One option to keep the EPAS would be go with an external oil pump and modify the oil pan. This would give you the clearance you need and you should have plenty of room for the external pump.

Earl

Wet sump:

Oil Pan - $260
Oil pump - $80
Oil pump drive shaft - $20

Dry sump

Oil pan - $400 (already exceeded cost of entire wet sump system)
Oil tank - $580
Pump - $1490
Bracket Kit - $200

We're already up to almost $3k, and we haven't started talking about fittings, pullies or belts.

Dry sump parts add up quick. I don't think it's financially feasible unless it costs the same as putting together a hydraulic power steering system.

 

[Mike K]

Check with BMR since they offer Windsor k - members.

 

[jsimmonstx]

Check with BMR since they offer Windsor k - members.

Yeah, I've already established that I'm going to use their K-member.

 

[Mike K]

I must have missed that. I'm excited to see this build come together.

 

[jsimmonstx]

I have scoured the net for someone selling an EPAS rack, and have found absolutely zilch. I would prefer to get one that is burned up (electrically unusable) because it'll be a lot cheaper, and I won't feel bad about grinding on it (I know it's gonna be necessary, I just don't know where or how much). I contacted Vorshlag and Steeda on the off chance that they might have any burned up units laying around (or in the trash heap). I figure if anyone is gonna toast one of these (or replace them with something better), it's gonna be someone that actually races them. I would gladly pay $25 for a trashed one (plus shipping) if it allows me to establish whether or not I'll be able to keep the one already in my car. I won't be heartbroken if I can't keep it, but it will save me some cash if I can.

 

[jsimmonstx]

Anotheer question - the guys at the shop seem to think my Eibach springs won't hold up to well to the weight of the 351w. I know it's gonna be heavier than the V6, but should I worry? I think the extra weight is gonna probably lower the whole car by about 1/2 inch.

 

[psfracer]

^^^^I have BMR springs 1" lowering springs, with a BBF, and they are fine.

I don't think an aluminum headed windsor would weigh that much more vs a 4.6 3V, and not sure how much more it would weigh vs the V6.

 

[jsimmonstx]

Trying to get my motor parts ordered. I'm not in a hurry, but I hate it when shit doesn't just happen. So far, parts for the longblock are going to be about $5k, which includes;

Dart block (windows with 4.125 bore)
RPM forged rotating assembly (22cc dish, 4.0 stroke, 6.2 H rods, internal balance)
Cam (Trick flow Track Max 003)
Cam bearings
ARP head studs
Billet steel double-roller timing set
Oil pump and gaskets
Oil pump drive shaft
Oil pickup
Oil pan and gasket
Rear main seal
Timing cover & gaskets
Head gaskets
Valve springs (heads came off a solid roller cam motor)
Moroso 7-quart oil pan
Mallory distributor (8578M)

I already have a set of AFR 205 heads with rocker arms, but I think the springs may need to be changed since I'm going with an hydraulic cam.

Not counting assembly labor, I'm looking at about $5100. I'm essentially waiting for the engine builder to look over my parts list before I place an order.

 

[psfracer]

I would change the valve springs regardless, unless you know the history behind them. Just depends on how serious a build you are doing.

What compression will the piston provide with a 22cc dish? Do you have any flow numbers on the cylinder heads? What are the cam specs?

 

[stang67]

Sweet I like this thread I have a 05 gt with a built 4.6 and if it blows then it it getting a 393 Windsor I have built just waiting to go in

 

[jsimmonstx]

I would change the valve springs regardless, unless you know the history behind them. Just depends on how serious a build you are doing.

What compression will the piston provide with a 22cc dish? Do you have any flow numbers on the cylinder heads? What are the cam specs?

The heads are 58cc AFR 205's modified to support a solid roller cam. They have less than 500 miles on them (they were on a turbo charged drag car). The owner is upgrading to 220's. the only flow numbers I have are from AFR.

According to all of the compression ratio calculators, a 22cc dish piston will result in a 10.49:1 static compression ratio.

For other potential Dart block buyers, the blocks don't come with a cam retainer plate. They're cheap, so so worries there, but you need to buy one (and bolts) if you don't already have one..

 

[psfracer]

So he had no port work done to the 205's?

I am just busting your balls on the flow numbers because for a N/A application, the cylinder head and cam are the most important pieces, and everything else needs to be built around them for the best combo---its hard to do that if you don't know where in the rpm range the heads work, and at what lift.

As far as the springs, if you have a part# you can just look up the spring pressure (at your installed height)--but chances are if it was for a solid roller the spring pressure would be too high for a hydraulic flat tappet. Have you considered a hydraulic roller valve train? If this is going to be a street able application then I think you have a good compression ratio with the pistons you chose.

 

[jsimmonstx]

So he had no port work done to the 205's?

I am just busting your balls on the flow numbers because for a N/A application, the cylinder head and cam are the most important pieces, and everything else needs to be built around them for the best combo---its hard to do that if you don't know where in the rpm range the heads work, and at what lift.

As far as the springs, if you have a part# you can just look up the spring pressure (at your installed height)--but chances are if it was for a solid roller the spring pressure would be too high for a hydraulic flat tappet. Have you considered a hydraulic roller valve train? If this is going to be a street able application then I think you have a good compression ratio with the pistons you chose.

I don't know if the heads were ported, but I can find out. They're still on the car (EFI with a turbo charger), but I'm gonna help the guy take them off this weekend if our schedules line up.

The cam I chose (TrickFlow Track Max 003) is a hydraulic roller cam, and knowing the heads came off a solid cam motor, I'm budgeting as if I need to get springs (I don't know what springs are currently on the heads). I know the seat and open pressure value ranges for a hydraulic cam, and found some Lunati springs that look like they'll do the job (they have pressures at the top of the range). I was going to have the heads disassembled and checked (seats, valves and guides) in any case.

It would be less expensive to just go with a solid cam because I have to buy a cam and lifters anyway, but I wouldn't have to change the springs. However, I don't want to be under the hood once a week adjusting the rockers.

 

[jsimmonstx]

Today's "deep thought":

Idle time leads to thinkin' about shit, and today's topic is carburetor selection.

The shop guys recommend an 850 double pumper (a Quickfuel Q-series carb) for the ultimate in bad-assery. I think this recommendation is more about chest thumping than anything else, and while it might be cooler, I have to think along more practical lines (not to mention, a smaller carb will cost less money).

I used this calculation to determine CFM requirements:

CID * max RPM * 3456

and the carb size calculation (427 x 6500 / 3456, and assuming 100% volumetric efficiency) came up with 803 CFM. The current "best practice" is to go with a carb that's smaller than your calculated cfm requirements, so I multiplied 803 by .95.

The cfm required dropped to 763 CFM, which puts me in the middle between the available 735 or 780 cfm carbs. I'm thinking the 780 would be the better choice.

The car will be driven on the street most of the time and will be my daily driver for a while, so I'm somewhat concerned with getting reasonable fuel economy, and am therefore considering changing my plan to use a vacuum secondary carb. Once the car goes into "restricted use mode", I can think about a mech secondary carb for more of the desired bad-assery.

Thoughts? Opinions? Criticisms? Outright insults?