Man Without a Country?

psfracer

billy badass
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If you are worried about streetability, mileage, etc, then i agree with your assessment. You can also adjust how fast the vac secondary comes in with the spring kit.

Its just weird looking at a sbf with a max rpm of 6500 when i am building a 598 that will turn 8000 on a regular basis.
 

jsimmonstx

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If you are worried about streetability, mileage, etc, then i agree with your assessment. You can also adjust how fast the vac secondary comes in with the spring kit.

Its just weird looking at a sbf with a max rpm of 6500 when i am building a 598 that will turn 8000 on a regular basis.

If I was gonna run with a solid cam, I'd be right there with you brother. :)
 

STL2SLO

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Stahp....+Damn+chinese...+Thats+where+my+cat+went_50bdcf_4061715.jpg

Taste test lmao.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
 

jsimmonstx

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Rotating assembly ordered from FordStrokers.com!

RPM Forged 4340 crank with 2.75 main journals
RPM Forged H-beam rods
Wiseco 22cc dish pistons (inline)
Zero internal balanced

$1874.00

I'll be ordering the Dart block on Tuesday, along with everything else needed to complete the engine itself.

I also ordered the timing chain cover and a crank sensor trigger wheel on ebay.
 
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hunterwiley

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UPS delivered my valve covers yesterday ("427 Cobra" ribbed from FRPP). I'm expecting the air cleaner and/or fuel pressure regulator today, and I'll be ordering the shortblock parts this weekend.

I think I thought of another potential issue as well. My car has (I think) vacuum associeted power brakes (no hydro-boost because of the EPAS). If that is indeed the case, where do I get the vacuum feed from? The carb is going to be a 4150 holley style (from QuickFuel) on an Edelbrock Air Gap intake, and I was intending to use the throttle-body base plate fitting for the PCV hose. Most of you would say "add a spacer", but I think I'm already going to be VERY close on hood clearance as it is. If I have to use a spacer, I think I'm gonna have to fall back to the regular RPM intake (1-inch shorter than Air Gap). That's gonna be a bummer if I have to do that. The problem is that I won't know if the hood clearance is OK for sure until the motor is actually in the car, with the manifold, spacer, carb, and air cleaner installed. :(

Get the vacuum feed off the carb base plate, or screw a fitting into the air gap intake. You'll have plenty of room with the air gap... or you should, depending on how high your engine sits in the bay. I run an air gap, with a 1.25" carb spacer on top of it, and a nascar cowl induction air cleaner on top of that. Fits under a stock 2005 hood.

Another option on the steering rack - every considered putting a 2005-2009 rack in there, and running a hydraulic PS pump? Dead nuts simple, and not terribly expensive. Get a reman rack from autozone for $150 or so. I run a KRC pump mounted on the driver side head, V-belts, and it all works very well.

You'll like the fordstroker stuff. I've bought a couple of engines from Jim. Curious why you didn't have him just build the shortblock? He does good work. You could get a camshaft spec'ed by Jim, or get Ed Curtis to do one for you.
 
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rojizostang

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Get the vacuum feed off the carb base plate, or screw a fitting into the air gap intake. You'll have plenty of room with the air gap... or you should, depending on how high your engine sits in the bay. I run an air gap, with a 1.25" carb spacer on top of it, and a nascar cowl induction air cleaner on top of that. Fits under a stock 2005 hood.

Another option on the steering rack - every considered putting a 2005-2009 rack in there, and running a hydraulic PS pump? Dead nuts simple, and not terribly expensive. Get a reman rack from autozone for $150 or so. I run a KRC pump mounted on the driver side head, V-belts, and it all works very well.

You'll like the fordstroker stuff. I've bought a couple of engines from Jim. Curious why you didn't have him just build the shortblock? He does good work. You could get a camshaft spec'ed by Jim, or get Ed Curtis to do one for you.


let's see some pictures of your car!
 

jsimmonstx

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Get the vacuum feed off the carb base plate, or screw a fitting into the air gap intake.

You mean the port in the back passenger side runner?

You'll have plenty of room with the air gap... or you should, depending on how high your engine sits in the bay. I run an air gap, with a 1.25" carb spacer on top of it, and a nascar cowl induction air cleaner on top of that. Fits under a stock 2005 hood.

Cool - that's good to know. I have a Cervini's Ram-Air hood, so I have even more clearance than that.

Another option on the steering rack - every considered putting a 2005-2009 rack in there, and running a hydraulic PS pump? Dead nuts simple, and not terribly expensive. Get a reman rack from autozone for $150 or so. I run a KRC pump mounted on the driver side head, V-belts, and it all works very well.

Yeah, I was originally gonna just avoid the hassle of tying to make the EPAS fit and use a 2005-10 rack, but since we're retaining the ECU in order to get a proper signal for the OEM tach, we figured we'd try to keep the EPAS as well. I changed the oil pan to a stock unit to see if it will clear the EPAS more readily. If all else fails, we'll go with an earlier hydraulic setup.

You'll like the fordstroker stuff. I've bought a couple of engines from Jim. Curious why you didn't have him just build the shortblock? He does good work. You could get a camshaft spec'ed by Jim, or get Ed Curtis to do one for you.

I want to support local businesses to the highest extent possible (plus, the engine builder I'm using has mad skills according to everyone I've talked to. I've also had the opportunity to see his motors running (8-9 second cars).
 

rojizostang

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nice pics....we also need to see some pics of hunterwiley's car...or maybe he'll start another thread so it this one won't get all cluttered.

is your car at STP now?
 

jsimmonstx

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we also need to see some pics of hunterwiley's car...or maybe he'll start another thread so it this one won't get all cluttered.

Hunter posted a thread with a few pics. He's running a 347/TKO 600 setup in a race car.

is your car at STP now?

No, we're gonna gather all of the parts before we start. I told them we have two weeks to get the car drivable once we start, because it's my daily driver. They don't seem to think we can meet that schedule, but I don't see why not. I'll be taking that two weeks off, and will be doing a lot of the work myself. If everything we need is at the shop before we start, and we've figured out all of the possible issues ahead of time, I see no reason we shouldn't have the car drivable in the first week.

The first issue was converting to a return-type fuel system. We're going to put a bulkhead fitting in the passenger side fuel hat and run the return line from there.

The second issue was retaining the OEM instrument cluster. We're going to retain the ECU and use the OEM crank sensor triggered from a 1996 Explorer 5.0 crank trigger wheel. This will give us a tach signal.

The final issue was the power steering. Originally, I was going to just go hydraulic, but since we're keeping the ECU, we're going to try to retain the EPAS. Fitment is the big issue, but even after making it fit, it still may not work due to the ECU not getting the info it needs to properly meter the steering. I'm hoping a crank signal is all we need to convince the computer to do its thing, but since nobody has done this yet, it appears that we're going to be blazing the trail here.

We're going to use a BMR 351w engine swap K-member, Accufab mid-length headers, and (I think) an OEM transmission cross-member, so getting the engine in the engine bay won't be a problem.

Once we get it running, I'll be able to add A/C back to the car when I get around to it.

We have a plan, and a parts list. Best case scenario with absolutely zero problems, I'm expecting 3-7 days to get it drivable.

I'm at STP every Saturday - they allow me to help out around the shop.
 
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rojizostang

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you know i wouldn't mind helping break the car down if you need a hand. i'm not that far from you and recently retired, so i'm available most of the time. plus, i would like to see this up close and personal. not saying i would ever attempt this with my car, but, if yours turns out well, who knows....
 

jsimmonstx

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you know i wouldn't mind helping break the car down if you need a hand. i'm not that far from you and recently retired, so i'm available most of the time. plus, i would like to see this up close and personal. not saying i would ever attempt this with my car, but, if yours turns out well, who knows....

Well, I don't want to speak for Chris and Roy, but you're welcomed to come down to the shop and talk to them about it. If you come down on Saturday, I'll be there. And if anything, a carb'd 351w swap into your car would be easier because you don't have to worry about an electric power steering rack, and I'm sure the guys at STP would welcome your business. They're doing a 351w swap into a Fox body (and have done several others), and they've also done at least two S95's. They definitely have the knowledge and experience.

Truth be told, I'd like to get the motor/trans out of the car and trailer it to the shop (they're only 3 miles from my house). Doing that will save the hassle of transporting the old power train back to the house. I don't want to be a burden to them as far as having to do something with it. I have a neighbor with a car trailer that I think I can talk into pulling it to the shop for me. (He's got a real nice '65 with a 393/TKO600.)

So, you'd be welcomed to come and help rip out the old stuff. I also want to remove as much of the interior as necessary (harness bar, back seat, passenger seat, etc), the hood, and the front bumper cover. Hell, maybe we can even get the pedals and K-member swapped out before we take it over there. I think the two of us could do all of that in a weekend. Definitely come over to the shop on Saturday, and we'll talk about it.
 
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rojizostang

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okay well i have a truck, so if you need to haul something to or from the shop i can help with that. it'll give me a chance to test out the air bags....

Sundays are about the only days it's hard to make a lot of time, but if you're going to work on it Saturday or in the evenings, let me know

Rusty 210 835 8686

stp has worked on my car a couple of times, gear swaps, clutch and tranny stuff
 

jsimmonstx

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Update:

0) Ordered my headers today (Accufab BT210 mid-length with 1-3/4 primaries and 3-inch collectors). There's still a question of fitment, especially on the passenger side where it passes the bell housing flange where the starter mounts up, but whatever we need to do to make them work, we're gonna do it. It seems the only two places you can buy these headers is either direct from Accufab, or from AndysAutosport.com. I chose Andys. $371 + $0 shipping. Ouch on the shipping.

1) We're all concerned about the power steering issue. If we can't get the EPAS to fit, the shop guys seem to think my best bet is to go with a manual steering rack, but I'm concerned that after spending the money on one and finding out it's too hard to turn, I will have wasted $600 because there's not a lot of people looking for a used manual rack for a S197, so it would be hard to re-sell as used. I'm not really in the mood to waste $600. I sure hope we can make the EPAS fit - and more importantly that it works after we do. In all honesty, I'd rather go hydraulic power steering if the EPAS can't be made to fit/work.

1a) On a semi-related note, one of the shop guys thinks I should install a throttle position sensor on the carb (a kit is available for $69 from Innovative Motorsports) to make sure the ECU doesn't "freak out". I'm not sure we'll need it because *I THINK* the EPAS is controlled by MPH, which we will be getting from the T56. Right now, the only thing we need the ECU for is the OEM instrument cluster and the EPAS. If we have to ditch the EPAS, I don't think I need to worry about the ECU freaking out.

2) I thought I was going to be able to get away with using a FRPP oil pan, but it won't clear the 4-bolt mains on the block. Damn the luck because it comes as a kit, and includes the pickup and dipstick. My only other real option at this point is a Moroso 7-quart. Not only does it cost $100 more, but I have to buy the pickup and dipstick separately, adding another $100 to the cost. Crap.

3) Ordering the block and other long block stuff today for sure. Once the motor is built and back in the shop, we can attach the bell housing and test-fit the headers. After that, *IF* we can find a donor EPAS, we'll order the BMR K-member and start dickin' around with fitment.

4) I sent both Vorschlag and Steeda an email asking if they had a burned up/discarded EPAS laying around, and Steeda came back with no. More than a week later, Vorschlag still hasn't responded. I would hate to have to wait until we actually start the swap before trial fitting the EPAS. We only have a very limited time in which to effect the swap, and I'm real anal about being totally prepared for the task at hand.

5) I'm trying to arrange for a loaner mock-up block, but I'm not sure how that's gonna play out. The guy that has it (if he still indeed has it) is in Houston, and I offered to rent it from him for $50, and that I would even come and get it so that he doesn't have to ship it. I suppose it's gonna come down to whether he thinks he can trust me to return it.

6) I found out yesterday that Texas has what amounts to a hot-rod tax on labor. General maintenance/repair labor is not taxed, but what I'm doing (aftermarket changes) IS. What a crock of shit.
 
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jsimmonstx

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Update:

0) Ordered everything except the carb and the water pump this morning. The reason for those two omissions is because to get free shipping, I need an $400 order, and the pump is going to be significantly less than that, so I chose the carb as a shipping partner to get me over the $400 threshold.

1) George from Accufab called me yesterday afternoon with questions about my (mid-length) headers. I was kinda surprised, but I'm glad he called - I didn't know there were two header bolt patterns on the heads (I needed the wide pattern). He also talked about the application, and he said he'd never done 351w headers for a S197 before, but it shouldn't be much different from fitment in a Fox body.

2) The mockup block deal goes like this - I can have the block with an (unknown) oil pan for $150. I'm wondering if I even need it at this point though. It's gonna take 4-6 weeks to get the headers, and the motor will be assembled right about that time, so having the mockup block won't really buy me anything as far as time savings is concerned.
 

jsimmonstx

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Ordered a throttle position sensor from Innovate Motorsports (just in case we need it).

I'm also working up a list of fittings I'll need. We're going with push-loc stuff, and by my count, I need about 15ft of hose and :

1x bulkhead union fitting 6AN (for fuel hat) along with a couple of nylon washers
3x 3/8 NPT - 6AN (for pressure regulator)

3x 90-degree 6AN (one for fuel hat, two for regulator)
2x straight 6AN (one for carb fuel line and one for regulator)
 
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jsimmonstx

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Your car is still running?

Yeah. Before I actually start the swap, the motor will be built, and all of the parts we can think of needing will be purchased and ready to install. The goal is to get the car drivable in the shortest amount of time possible, which means we are going to avoid A/C at first. I think we can achieve that goal in a week's time IF we're prepared.

We repeatedly go over the various systems (essentially bench-racing the swap) and we've reached the point where we can't really think of anything new that we need.

There's some stuff we can't do until we have the parts, such as header fitment where the collector passes the bell housing flang, and resolving the power steering issues, but everything else is pretty much fleshed out. We *think* we'll have enough hood clearance, but again, we won't know for sure until the motor is actually in the car.

I don't like to start a big task like this until I'm confident I have everything I need to do the job. Besides, the car simply can't be down for a couple of months.

I realize allowing just two weeks from start to finish is an aggressive schedule, but if I didn't think it was possible, I wouldn't suggest it.
 

lito

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I am quite sure no TP is needed and all will work but have some doubts on other stuff that may not.

To test, get the car on a downhill where you could gain some speed safely, unplug the TB and injectors, turn key on, put it in gear let it roll with clutch in, check speedo, EPAS behavior and by lifting the clutch on a corresponding gear for your current speed, roll clutch and see RPM.

Other things for cluster are:

Oil pressure switch and level, should be tricked or installed.
ECT, the CHT should be installed, probably as ECT would work, would read cooler than needed but if you get it hot enough, your ECT would put itself in the middle.
Biggest issue is alternator, you should probably use, somehow, the stock unit.

All this is with the idea of reducing error bulbs and message center errors, not an expert on 11+ but this will apply AFAIK.

Also, would probably need to disable CEL/MIL.
 
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