NASA TT

[pieperz06]

well i got a few questions about NASA time trials and i figured some of you would have some better info than me just reading the rules and not understanding any thing.

1. what class does the s197 fall under stock

2. i think i would only have 18 points if i ran street tires which i would rather do because i dont like shelling out alot of money for tires all the time. but if i did run my contential slicks i would be at 48 points. would moveing up 1 class or 2 with slicks put me at to much of a disadvantage.

3. what other cars would be running in the same class as me at the +1 or +2 class changes or is it less about the car and more about how it is prepared.

4. is the open passing some thing i should be worried about because it is my DD. i have never done this and it isint me that im worried about it is all the other people much like it is DD so i dont see much of a reason to be worried.

5. what can i do if im in to high of a class besides just tough it out (i like my parts and dont wanna take any thing off

thanks for any input

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

NASA Time Trails requires you to already be at the HPDE 3 (Advanced/Solo) level with lots of experience in passing anywhere with a point-by before going into TT. You should feel very comfortable taking and giving passes in the turns and esses. http://www.nasa-tt.com/ Recommend contacting your NASA Regional TT Director for proper classing of your Mustang since their online calculator is being updated at this time. http://www.nasa-tt.com//Regions Good luck!

 

[pieperz06]

I didint realize hpde3 &4 had passing like that. I just want to be on my game as far as what I'm doing so I want to know more about it so I know if it is some thing I want to do

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

NASA may also credit time with other car clubs that do HPDEs, based on NASA Region, that allow passing anywhere with a point-by for experience purposes. It's awesome! Once you regularly participate in advanced groups that allow this type of passing, you'll never go back to passing only on straightaways!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I run TT with NASA in the Midwest region, so I can offer a little bit of insight for you... That said, all regions are apparently just that little bit different, so of course, YMMV. Your best resource is your local TT director, who should be reachable via website email.

1. The 05-06 base classes as TTD**, meaning D, plus 14 points as an equalizer. The 07-09 class as TTC, with no points, and I understand that the 2011 with the 5.0 will class as a TTB, again, with no points.

2. You REALLY need to read the TT rules, then read them again, then think about them, then read them one more time. As a matter of fact, as you're beginning your "build," print off a copy of the rules (NOT just the classification sheets!), and have it handy to refer to. The tire points will be affected by two things: your initial base class, and the compound. Street tires (more than 100 treadwear) don't get points for compound, but they do for size. For example, TTD has a base tire size of 245mm, and if you run 275's, that will cost you 7 points. an 07-up bases on 255mm tires, so the same 275 tires will cost only 4 points. If you run Hoosier R6 (or similar) that's another 10 points, and the A6 (or similar) will cost you 13. Remember that every 20 points is a class, so it's hard to get an S197 to stay in TTD, unless you run it pretty much bone stock.

3. As for what else you'll be running against, that would really depend on who's in your region. In mine, in TTB, it's an Evo IX, a WRX, a Cayman S, and of course, my Mustang.

4. If you can drive (be honest with yourself!), I wouldn't worry over-much about the risk of car-to-car contact. The drivers in the TT ranks are GOOD, and they don't like to get into situations where contact is likely. That said, the nature of the competition is such that passing is a lot more laid-back than you would think, given the "open passing" moniker. The simple fact is that if you have to make a pass, even on a straight, then your hot lap is blown, and you might as well back off unless the pass is completely safe anyway. It's not uncommon for a car to see another coming on their hot lap and adjust pace to allow them to go offline to let the "hot" car by on-line. It's competitive, but it's also very cooperative in nature. If you hold somebody up, I can guarantee you they'll return the favor!

5. If you wind up classing "too high" due to mod points, you have two options: A) just suck it up and tough it out, or B) build-out to the limits of the class. Also a bit of advice: SPEND YOUR POINTS WISELY!! That really gucci front fascia that you've had your eye on, with the slick little lip spoiler that just looks tough will wind up costing you SIX POINTS, and will give you no appreciable benefit. Save the points for something that will count! Also, look at your mods, and ask yourself if you've REALLY done them right... KYB shocks and super-slam lowering springs cost EXACTLY the same number of points as a set of KY Clubsport coilovers, or AST coilovers with Hypercoil springs. Yes the good stuff costs more money, but no more points.

Final thought: It takes a while to get acclimated to the TT environment, and figure out how to pace to get a clean lap, so if you wind up dead last in class, don't blame it on the car or the hardware, just run a few events, and figure out the "game."

The fastest CARS are the ones built with the rule book in hand, not dumped into whatever class they fit in once they're done. That said, a better driver can overcome that handicap and still take wins...

HINT: Tires and shocks pay the best divedends on the S197. Period.

 

[pieperz06]

cool that explanes a lot.

i just started thinking about running TT because alot of the guys that i run with at a PCA event do different NASA events and it sounds like a lot of fun.

i am how eve a bit confused. about the 14pt equalizer is tha it to say that i would get 14 free points and then they would start counting toward the next 20 pts and a class change.

and yah i definitely understand building a car to the limits of the rules it is just hard for me to justify it at this point because like you said a lot of the problem is still me. but i feel confident with the set up i have at the moment and it has been working very well at the last PCA event i was at.

im not to worried about getting to the HPDE 4 lvl because im running with the red group with the PCA which would put me rite there at hpde3 give or take some. but i dont like to start doing some thing and then decide i want to go a completely direction.

one other thing do they weigh the car with a full tank of gas or empty for the stock weight.

 

[Philostang]

Sadly no, the 14 pts is a disadvantage. You've already eaten up 14 points in stock trim, so there's that much less to use before you bump to the next class.

Like Dave said, it's damn near impossible to stay in D class unless you're really going to keep her very stock. (I think I read some fine print in the rule book that if you just look at your car the wrong way, they'll tack on 6 points for it...or at least it starts to feel that way.)

Best,
-j

 

[SoundGuyDave]

John hit the nail on the head... D** only has FIVE points available to spend before you're bumped into TTC.

Also, your weight is done RIGHT as you come off the track. You can use fuel load to equalize things if you wind up under-target on weight, but with the bogie set at 3450lbs, race ready (coming off the track, with the driver in it), being too light is something a street-based S197 is generally not going to worry about... With all 150lbs of me and safety gear in the car, and running on fumes, I scale at 3605lbs. A full tank adds about 90lbs to that.

I think your best bet would be to get to a NASA-TX event or two, meet the players, and see just how things are run. At least in the Midwest, we're all car guys, so we don't mind chatting about our rides, or the track, or the procedures.

 

[pieperz06]

John hit the nail on the head... D** only has FIVE points available to spend before you're bumped into TTC.

Also, your weight is done RIGHT as you come off the track. You can use fuel load to equalize things if you wind up under-target on weight, but with the bogie set at 3450lbs, race ready (coming off the track, with the driver in it), being too light is something a street-based S197 is generally not going to worry about... With all 150lbs of me and safety gear in the car, and running on fumes, I scale at 3605lbs. A full tank adds about 90lbs to that.

I think your best bet would be to get to a NASA-TX event or two, meet the players, and see just how things are run. At least in the Midwest, we're all car guys, so we don't mind chatting about our rides, or the track, or the procedures.

so i would be in ttb as i sit now with street tires.

do you have any weight reduction at all besides like the spare tire

 

[SoundGuyDave]

The trunk is totally stripped, in the rear, I pulled the brake dust shields, the axle weights, the rear seat, swapped in an aluminum driveshaft, aluminum flywheel, etc. Up front, I swapped in the Steeda tubular radiator crossmember, Steeda competition cowl hood, and in the middle added a rollbar, but also swapped the power/leather for aluminum race seats. Went from 3719 to 3605, and yes, I can feel every pound of it in the car!

FWIW, I'm maxed out in TTB with 275 Hoosier R6 tires.

 

[pieperz06]

The trunk is totally stripped, in the rear, I pulled the brake dust shields, the axle weights, the rear seat, swapped in an aluminum driveshaft, aluminum flywheel, etc. Up front, I swapped in the Steeda tubular radiator crossmember, Steeda competition cowl hood, and in the middle added a rollbar, but also swapped the power/leather for aluminum race seats. Went from 3719 to 3605, and yes, I can feel every pound of it in the car!

FWIW, I'm maxed out in TTB with 275 Hoosier R6 tires.

sounds like that is rite about where i should be at you just have the cross member and cowl hood

how do you like the cross member is it worth the ~10 lbs

and i defiantly know what you mean about feeling every pound i took every thing out of my car and i freaked out a bit. at that moment i became a weight junkie lol and i feel like every thing is useless and could weigh less. i cant fathom tho how ppl get there car down to 3000 lbs with a roll bar

i just recaculated what class i thought i would be in and i would be in TTB with 5 points i could still spend.

 

[Thinkkker]

Went from 3719 to 3605, and yes, I can feel every pound of it in the car!

Is that with you in the car?

 

[pieperz06]

Is that with you in the car?

i hope to god it is

 

[Thinkkker]

i hope to god it is

Me too, that is why I asked

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Yup, that's with me in the car, as scaled in impound at our first event this year. I really want to find that extra 150lbs to dump, but am SERIOUSLY afraid of where it will come from...