new personal best, yet maximum frustration

[terry5357]

I am sooooooo tired of losing on the #*&^*&$%^*%&$#^% big end I can't hardly stand it. my little 281 just PUNKS OUT on the big end. I tree the shit out of other cars (mainly 350 cid camaros) and then have them just run me down is PISSING me off to no end ( can you feel the frustration). I tried the Don W method, driving the finish line, or running my true dial in and my little motor just falls flat on its face about 550'. will hedders help give it more life on the big end or cams or both or WHAT AAAAAGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!

any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated


oh personal best was 8.502 with 1.972 60 foot, which brings us to inconsistent 60 foot times, which I will fix with drag radials, so I am not so worried about anymore since the LCA install

 

[Hawgman]

You're going to need to give us a dollar figure in your budget before we can give you ideas of what to do. Otherwise, you are going to get ideas from all over the place.

 

[terry5357]

You're going to need to give us a dollar figure in your budget before we can give you ideas of what to do. Otherwise, you are going to get ideas from all over the place.

motor only, no nitrous. 3-4 thousand

 

[don_w]

Terry... is you car running the number or not? It doesn't really matter if it falls on its face, if it's running the dial... especially if you're better on the RT.

Can you post up a timeslip or two showing the dial-ins, RTs and incrementals for both cars?

 

[US-1]

Terry,
If you have Doug's transmission tunes the car should be very consistent. As Don stated....let's see the timeslips. The headers will help.

 

[Freaknazty]

if you want consistent go with the msd 2-step that will help your 60' and of course dr's as far as what to buy just figure out what combo will give you more bang for your buck ie. suspension/weight reduction , or power or a mix of both

i would say cmdp's 100
udp's 150
adj. uca 150
anti squat brackets 90-100
dr's on stock rims 600 w/rims
swaybar delete 150
bmr k member 500
longtubes 650-700 for jba's 1200 for kooks
msd 2 step 300?
aluminum d/s 700

total cost 3950 w/ kooks 3450 w/jba's and this should drop at least a sec off

 

[DKO]

Delete plates will help. Just installed them on my car and it definitely feels like it pulls more up top. Not a huge difference mind you, but it feels like it doesn't die off like you described.

 

[terry5357]

Terry... is you car running the number or not? It doesn't really matter if it falls on its face, if it's running the dial... especially if you're better on the RT.

Can you post up a timeslip or two showing the dial-ins, RTs and incrementals for both cars?

DOn,
I will be back in Dallas by next weekend and back to where I can scan the time slips in for now I hope just giving you the infor will help. THe biggest problem I had this past weekend was in right lane the car would hook up and I would get 1.98 60 foot and 8.503 @82.54 mph, in left lane 2.059 60' 8.64 @ 81.65 mph. I only got 2 dial in runs and they were hour and a half apart. SO I don't know if the car is running the times or not. 1st round of elimination



I am left lane
dial in left is 8.53 right is 8.42
R/T .042 .031
60' 2.015 1.996
330' 5.577 5.531
1/8 8.561 8.493
1/8 mph 81.92 77.90

this guy had 4 mph slower but was a car length ahead before we got to mph cone. I can't figure out how I lost. I didn't break out and he was going slower unless he was going cosideraby faster and dumped me prior to mph cone. I dial an 8.53 run a 8.561 and the guy ran me down and had time to pedal. I don't want anyone to be able to "pedal" on me. I was expecting and uder 2.0 60' time which may or may not have got me the win. but I hope you can see my frustration. Keep in mind I am still in the rookie state so maybe you can offer some suggestions. and you tell me if mycar is "running the numbers or not" cause I just don't know if it is or not, not being familiar with the "lingo"

 

[terry5357]

if you want consistent go with the msd 2-step that will help your 60' and of course dr's as far as what to buy just figure out what combo will give you more bang for your buck ie. suspension/weight reduction , or power or a mix of both

i would say cmdp's 100
udp's 150
adj. uca 150
anti squat brackets 90-100
dr's on stock rims 600 w/rims
swaybar delete 150
bmr k member 500
longtubes 650-700 for jba's 1200 for kooks
msd 2 step 300?
aluminum d/s 700

total cost 3950 w/ kooks 3450 w/jba's and this should drop at least a sec off

so from 13.60's to 12.60's I could dig that

 

[terry5357]

Well after a little research and $$$ vs. gain I think a touque converter, then cams then hedders and somewhere in there drag radials. Thanks for the opinions and offerings of help.

sincerely,
Terry

 

[don_w]

I am left lane
dial in left is 8.53 right is 8.42
R/T .042 .031
60' 2.015 1.996
330' 5.577 5.531
1/8 8.561 8.493
1/8 mph 81.92 77.90

I can't figure out how I lost.

There is something not right there. If those numbers are correct, you should have been ahead by 0.031 at the stripe. I can think of three possible causes: (1) the numbers you posted aren't correct, (2) the timing system malfunctioned, or (3) the actual dial-in for one of you was entered wrong into the timing system.

 

[terry5357]

There is something not right there. If those numbers are correct, you should have been ahead by 0.031 at the stripe. I can think of three possible causes: (1) the numbers you posted aren't correct, (2) the timing system malfunctioned, or (3) the actual dial-in for one of you was entered wrong into the timing system.

#3 is what I think cause if I didn't know better the lights came down together, when in an event last year I noticed that even with the sightest dial in difference the lights where staggered to some degree. And even though I was watch my side of the tree I cuoldn't help but see the other side and I didn't notice the other lanes lights starting after mine. Is there any way to find out if #3 was entered correctly after the fact.

As far as #1 I rechecked the time slip and those are the exact figures on it, also I have no reason to lie about something as insignificant as that. I just want to fix whats wrong with me or my car. I am truly hoping that the stall converter will (which will be my next mod) will give me a little more edge)

 

[don_w]

#3 is what I think cause if I didn't know better the lights came down together, when in an event last year I noticed that even with the sightest dial in difference the lights where staggered to some degree. And even though I was watch my side of the tree I cuoldn't help but see the other side and I didn't notice the other lanes lights starting after mine. Is there any way to find out if #3 was entered correctly after the fact.

As far as #1 I rechecked the time slip and those are the exact figures on it, also I have no reason to lie about something as insignificant as that. I just want to fix whats wrong with me or my car. I am truly hoping that the stall converter will (which will be my next mod) will give me a little more edge)

I wasn't accusing you of lying... I was referring to a possible typo, that's all.

With only a 1/10 of second between dialins, it might be difficult to notice the variation in the tree, unless you were specifically looking for it.

As far as finding out if there was a timing error, it's too late now. But, if I received a timeslip like that, I'd be in the timing tower immediately after the run asking them to explain how the other guy "won", even though the numbers said he couldn't have.

 

[terry5357]

There is something not right there. If those numbers are correct, you should have been ahead by 0.031 at the stripe. I can think of three possible causes: (1) the numbers you posted aren't correct, (2) the timing system malfunctioned, or (3) the actual dial-in for one of you was entered wrong into the timing system.

After talking to several people who race a good bit, said the same thing "I should have won according to the numbers, however there is a thing called being "dumped", dial a slower time that the car can run get ahead and pedal or brake just enough to finish ahead.

 

[don_w]

After talking to several people who race a good bit, said the same thing "I should have won according to the numbers, however there is a thing called being "dumped", dial a slower time that the car can run get ahead and pedal or brake just enough to finish ahead.

That's true... but the car would still need to have the numbers to back it up.

 

[terry5357]

speaking of numbers

That's true... but the car would still need to have the numbers to back it up.

You made a comment "is my car running the numbers?" I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Are you asking me if the car is repeating, that would be a no. Since I am having trouble repeating my launches, one being a 2.01 60' and the et 8.6xx and the other being a 1.97 60' and 8.5xx.

Kinda tired of dragging this on and on, back in Dallas tomorrow and up to Denton tomorrow night for some more work at the tree. Going to have DR's put on Saturday and down to yellow belly Sunday to see what difference they make. WIll post time slips from Friday and saturday and if you have any suggestions from them I will be glad to hear them.

Oh one other thing, about the stall on a converter. you said that you are running a 3500, what cams are you running and if I don't have any cams yet, will a 3000 stall converter still improve my times. just a thought

 

[don_w]

When I say "running the number", I mean is the car capapble of running as quick (or quicker) that the dial in? It doesn't do any good to dial in say 8.40 if the car runs 8.5s. On the other hand, if the car is running 8.5s and you dial in 8.60, you at least have a chance to brake at the end. Of course, all of this is moot if you get tree'd. And in a perfect world, a bracket car will run the same number (+/- 0.02) over and over and over.

But the bottom line is that for the race you posted above, there is no way the other guy could have been ahead at the stripe, unless there was an error or malfunction in the timing system.

Oh, and I still have the factory stock cams.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

I'd suggest doing datalogging off the track and see what your car is doing. Mine was having timing pulled back after launching and then lugging farther down the track (but 1/4 instead of 1/8), like it was pulling back in power on the upper end.

What helped me most was two things: using a lower thermostat to bring down the engine temps (our cars are notorious for heat soak), which with higher temps, timing was getting pulled back, hence less power; and second, adjustments of automatic tranny shift points to optimize shifting.

FWIW, with the auto tranny, you should be able to get very consistent times. The last time out I ran 3 runs all within .05 secs of each other.

[I just started amatuer bracket racing this year at a local 1/4 track, ran 6 event, won 2, placed 2nd in another. Once dialed in and consistent, you'll do fine... just concentrate on YOUR light and not the staggered light of the opponent.]

...and from the timeslip, you were .031 off-dial and the other was .071 off; you should have been the winner.

(but, so, how does the reaction time come into the formula as well? it does, doesn't it?)

 

[don_w]

...and from the timeslip, you were .031 off-dial and the other was .071 off; you should have been the winner.

(but, so, how does the reaction time come into the formula as well? it does, doesn't it?)

The RT difference between the two cars effects the margin of victory (MOV). For example, if both of those cars had the exact same RT, the MOV would have been 0.042 (0.073 - 0.031). But, since Terry's RT was 0.011 slower, the actual margin of victory would be reduced to 0.031 (0.042 - 0.011).

Another way to look at it is to add the RT and ET together for each car, then subtract the dialin. This is called "the package". The lower number (better package) will be the winner, and the difference between the two packages will be the MOV.

Terry: 0.042 + 8.561 - 8.53 = 0.073
Opponent: 0.031 + 8.493 - 8.42 = 0.104

Then, MOV = 0.104 - 0.073 = 0.031

All of the above also assumes neither driver breaks out.

p.s. Yes its true... great bracket racers have small packages.