new tires, horrible imbalance, yellow dots, red dots, wtf?

[dream07]

I had my Ford dealer put 4 new 255/40ZR19 tires on my daily driver 2005 with 2012 premium 19x8.5 wheels. I was all smiles until I got on the highway and from 60mph up the steering wheel was vibrating/shaking (think similar shake as warped rotors while braking and you get the idea). I turned around and drove back, they pulled them, re-balanced them and I left. Same thing, nothing changed. I came back, they did a 4-wheel alignment (only needed minor toe adjustments from my outer tie rod end replacement). I left, same thing, I said screw it.

Recent Maintenance Checklist- new FRPP GT500 front lower control arms, new Ford outer tie rod ends, new GT500 struts, new FRPP GT500 upper strut bearings, new Vogtland springs, and factory wheels that were fine with old 245's.

I have read enough about tire imbalance that I am going crazy. Tire manufacturers say the first choice is to line up the red dot (harmonic spot) with the spot on the wheel that is marked with a dot. Second choice is to line the yellow dot (lightest spot) up with the valve stem.

After reading all of that, I looked at my "dots" and nothing is lined up. Most are 90-degrees or even 180-degrees rotated from the valve stem. The only place that seems like a "mark" is that each wheel has a "4" stamped on it, on the outer lip of the back-side. Is that the "mark" for the red dot??????

The one mechanic said that maybe my tires just aren't round? Should I have them rotate the tires to line up the dots and re-balance? What about having them "road-force" balance them? WTF? Help!

 

[C.Love]

maybe just take them to a shop that knows what they are doing? Although the dots may indicate where to line things up its uncommon thats done. Matter of fact for all the tires Ive balanced Ive done it only a few times. Fact is who ever is balancing them is simply doing it wrong. Get your money back for the balance and take it elsewhere. Balancing wheels/tires isnt rocket science. You put simple measurements into the machine its spins then the new machines have laser lines where weights need to go.

 

[lethe]

They could just be out of round. It wasn't very often that we had to line up the dots with the valve stem. Usually if it got to that point and there were still vibration issues the tires would be sent back as a manufacturer defect.

 

[C.Love]

They could just be out of round. It wasn't very often that we had to line up the dots with the valve stem. Usually if it got to that point and there were still vibration issues the tires would be sent back as a manufacturer defect.

This too but that is very rare. human error is usually the problem

 

[psfracer]

Did they switch the tires from front to back?

How much weight did it take to balance them? I think its definitely balance, as if they were out of round you would be able to feel that at lower then 60mph.

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used to work at a tire/speed shop. I always lined the dot up with the valve stem. Also, whenever the balance machine wanted an absurd weight, I always stopped right there and tried rotating the tire 180 degrees on the wheel so the machine would want the least amount of weight.

It is possible A tire could be out of round, but you can isolate that problem by moving the tires around.

Did they static balance it, dual plane balance, or just use the tape on weights? If tape on, they could be falling off.

 

[stkjock]

Long shot. The rotor retention clips removed?

 

[dream07]

I threw away the rotor retainers on the first rotor swap, but yes I have heard of that causing a wobble. I wish that would be my problem.

Paul, yes, I wasted time swapping wheels and tires front to back on that first day. I also put my winter Blizzaks back on and found no problems (thus eliminating issues with the car itself). I had the Blizzaks on all week to drive to my new job, but I don't want to wear them out, so I put the wobblers back on today.

They are stick on flat weights, but they seem attached well (I cleaned the backs of the wheels very well before taking them to be mounted.

I know they say "insurance says you can't" but I am going to demand to be shown the screen on the balancer machine. This is not hard to do. I also saw that they have a "road-force" option, so I think I am going to make them use that roller thing too.

 

[Newman]

What kind of tires ?

Does it do it only between certain speeds?

 

[dream07]

Sumitomo htr z iii, which despite their cheap $150 cost are on many thousands of Mustangs (it's the go-to tire for American Muscle wheel/tire packages, etc.). They are a ZR rated summer performance tire and have an "extra load" rating over 1700 pounds each, so they aren't a flimsy tire.

It comes in at about 60mph and I stopped at 65mph, I don't want to be on the 11 o'clock news as the guy in the speeding Mustang that had a single-car accident from a blown tire.

 

[Newman]

The quality of tires isn't the best, and I won't say anything past that.

But if it's only at the speeds your talking about, it's most likely a balancing issuse.

So starts at 60 and stops 65ish? That's it ?

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Sumi's suck. The old saying "you get what you pay for" comes to mind. It could be a balancing issue or just a bad tire or two. My vote is a bad tire based on their history.

 

[Newman]

Sumi's suck. The old saying "you get what you pay for" comes to mind. It could be a balancing issue or just a bad tire or two. My vote is a bad tire based on their history.

Lol . I don't see too much of them roll through anymore .

 

[GrabberBlue5.0]

I agree with the above, it could well be the tires, it also could be that a lazy technician slopped lots of tire lube onto the tire bead when mounting And got lots of water/tire lube inside the tire itself, that liquid sloshing around will make it impossible to balance a tire properly

 

[STOCK GT]

Bring it to discount tire. ( I work there) tell them you want all 4 wheels rebalanced. Have them remove all previous weights and tell them to balance it with smart weight OFF! Once they balance them out go back up to 65 and if the vibration is still there them have them do the road force. Also each wheels should have no more than 3oz of weight per side. So inside and outside. if you ask they will let you watch when they are balencing them

 

[twizted91gt]

Another way to narrow it down is to remove LF wheel and put one of your blizzaks on and see if wobble goes away. If not, then repeat with RF and see. Could be just one of the fronts that's causing the issue.
Believe it or not but a nitrogen fill and road force balance do wonders for keeping tires vibration free.

 

[Newman]

Another way to narrow it down is to remove LF wheel and put one of your blizzaks on and see if wobble goes away. If not, then repeat with RF and see. Could be just one of the fronts that's causing the issue.
Believe it or not but a nitrogen fill and road force balance do wonders for keeping tires vibration free.

Please explain how nitrogen helps with balancing.

 

[Wes06]

You are aware like 80% of the atmosphere is nitrogen aren't you?
The only way it's better is if the normal air lines don't have in line dryers to remove moisture in the air.

 

[Newman]

Directed at me?

 

[tjm73]

Pure nitrogen is bullshit. Plain old air worked very well for over 100 years in every car made. Now I'm supposed to suddenly believe this gas that I'd now have to pay for will miraculously make things better enough to justify the cost? Bullshit. My tires are low on pressure. Better make a service appointment for my fancy tire gas so the dealer can charge me money for something I used to get for free at the local gas station or out of my own compressor.

Plain old compressed air after going through a water trap is just fine. But this is for another thread.

 

[Wes06]

Directed at me?

no it was to backup your question of nitrogen in balancing.

this was just in case of nitrogen fill period