Odessey To VIR April 2012

knownukes

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Sleeper 08,

It looks like you had a great time. I love this track. How do you compare it to Watkins Glen? I drove Watkins a few times in the late 80's both with and w/o the inter-loop, but my memory is a little fuzzy.

How did you like turn 10(left hander at the top of the climbing esses)?

What was it like being on the track with an F1 car? Man I envy you just for that. I am a F1 fanatic and would love to experience that.

You were concernrd about your brakes in earlier posts. How did they do?

What did you think about the entire facility? I really like being able to stay on site and the restaurant there is pretty good.

Glad you got a chance to experience it.

BJ
 

Justin_H

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Looks like fun. By the end of the video you were getting to know the track. There's a lot more speed to be had in some spots, like the double right hander before you go under the bridge and the left hander at the end of the back straight, but the tow back to Ontario would be really long with a bent car.

That's some crazy group of cars too. I'd love to take a few laps in the Ford GT, those cars are pretty awesome on the street.

BJ, VIR has a lot more linked turns than Watkins Glen and is slightly slower average speed. I run within a few tenths of the same laptime at both tracks, with WGI being about 0.14 miles longer. Oh, and VIR has much better runoff- although the past few years Watkins Glen has improved in several places.

I'm headed to VIR in a couple days with SCCA- breaking in a new motor in the racecar. Forecast calls for dry qualifying and rain both race days.

Justin
 

Gray Ghost GT

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Very nice! Looks like you were getting the hang of the VIR full course circuit toward the end. VIR is an amazing track. I really enjoyed Watkins Glen too! I would rate the VIR Grand Course #1, Watkins Glen #2 followed by VIR Full Course #3. I have two events in May - first of the 2012 season. I can't wait!! BJ, I hope to see you out there again. You have an amazing Mustang my friend. Mike
 

pcdrj

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Nice job! You'll definitely get more comfortable on subsequent visits and you'll be amazed at how much faster you can be. By transferring weight a little sooner you'll find a few seconds in the upper esses alone. I only get down there twice a year so I tend to focus on one area of the track on which to improve.

I plan on heading back down there in November with Trackdaze. Anyone up for a roadtrip?
 

Chris B.

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Nice job! You'll definitely get more comfortable on subsequent visits and you'll be amazed at how much faster you can be. By transferring weight a little sooner you'll find a few seconds in the upper esses alone. I only get down there twice a year so I tend to focus on one area of the track on which to improve.

I plan on heading back down there in November with Trackdaze. Anyone up for a roadtrip?

I'll be going to VIR this year, hopefully several times. I can't wait to the the grand course again in November.
 

argonaut

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I'm also signed up for November Track Daze - I will be driving my Vette though. Grand Course rocks.
 

knownukes

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Very nice! Looks like you were getting the hang of the VIR full course circuit toward the end. VIR is an amazing track. I really enjoyed Watkins Glen too! I would rate the VIR Grand Course #1, Watkins Glen #2 followed by VIR Full Course #3. I have two events in May - first of the 2012 season. I can't wait!! BJ, I hope to see you out there again. You have an amazing Mustang my friend. Mike

Mike, I will see you there in May at the SVT event. Are you bringing the Mustang or the Vette?

BJ
 

Sleeper_08

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Here is summary of my thoughts and feelings of the trip to VIR shown in the video above;

It is a long way from Toronto to VIR. I left my apartment at 5:30 Am and we got to our garage at the track at about 11:30 PM – 18 hours later. After unloading the cars from the trailer that is when I really appreciated the 2 minute trip from the garage up to our rooms. The rooms are plain but clean and include an internet connection.

The event was organized by David Murry and is different from most events. The track was open all day except for lunch and two brief bio breaks for the marshals. This meant you could run as much as you wanted over the two days. Passing was allowed on any straight without a point by and in any corner but only with a point by. I think the Porsche drivers defined a straight as any piece of track where you not turning for about 18 inches.

I have not been to VIR before but have about 25 track days over 3 years on 4 different tracks including Mosport. In preparation I watched Randy Pobst’s video quite a few times. My instructor, Gerry Low, also felt that trail braking was very important at VIR and so we worked on this at one of my local tracks the 2 weeks before we went. Because I am not able to heel and toe this meant that any downshifts had to wait until after the braking was finished.

My first session at VIR was both exhilarating and scary. It seemed that every car was on track and all of them were running much faster than I. As usual the videos do not give any real indication of how severe the elevation changes are and at VIR some of them are pretty severe. Thus there were cars in my first session that were passing me twice in one lap! The Porsche drivers weren’t taking hostages, especially of Mustang drivers, and at times it looked like they were parked in my trunk! This tends to affect your focus but gradually I was able to get faster and faster.

There were also quite a few offs and at one point an Acura SCCA car, that I was catching started blowing lots of blue smoke going into turn 1. My instructor told me to get as far to the outside as I could as quickly as I could and we didn’t hit him and he did not spew oil. Unfortunately my video was not running for that session.

With a 275/30/18 tire size I expected top end to be a problem and it was. On both of the straights it would wind up and hit the 6,250 rpm redline in fourth. I tried going to fifth but the data showed it actually slowed me down so I just left it in fourth and ran along just under the redline. This worked out around 132 MPH/215 KPH. In the climbing esses top speeds were in the 110 MPH/185 KPH range.

The combination of turn 10 and Oak Tree is quite similar to turns 4 and 5, Moss Corner, at Mosport except that at Mosport the elevation changes are more severe and the speeds are higher. As you can hear on the video my instructor was urging me to go faster through turn 10.

The trail braking worked well and on the data you can see it as a red area while turning. I was also using the curbs per Randy’s video and my car felt fine doing so. The David Murry instructors were teaching to stay off the curbs and to brake in a straight line. This is an example of how different instructors have different approaches.

My car can pull up to 1 G on a level corner and by the end of the second day I was generally running around .7/.8 G with excursions up to .9/.95 G in the slower corners. This meant there some margin, which was consistent with my #1 objective of being able to drive the car home.

By the end of the second day the number of cars on track had dropped significantly and for my final session I had a clear track for a lot of laps. This is when I did my best lap of 2:28.

The car ran like a charm and never skipped a beat. To give her a treat I used the 100 octane available at the track. Brake pad wear was minimal and the rotors still look like new. There were no signs of brake fade but driver fade was noticeable.

It is a great track and I had a great time but will probably not go back. There are other tracks closer to me such as Watkins Glen and Mid Ohio that it would also be nice to try.
 

swat 79

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Good Review, I moved to Dc and have been looking for a possible road course. This is about 2 hours away, definitely worth checking out!
 

SoundGuyDave

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The trail braking worked well and on the data you can see it as a red area while turning. I was also using the curbs per Randy’s video and my car felt fine doing so. The David Murry instructors were teaching to stay off the curbs and to brake in a straight line. This is an example of how different instructors have different approaches.

Speaking as an instructor, there is a decidedly good chance that the "stay off the curbs" and "brake in a straight line" bits were organization mandated. I instruct with several organizations, and they all have different approaches to what we should and should not be teaching our students. As a rule of thumb, hitting the curbs and trail-braking will upset the car, and when you're in the right seat with a guy you just met, with uncertain car-control skills, an upset car is the last thing you want. I usually do it that way too, until I get a feel for whether the driver and car can handle those types of maneuvers. Now, if I was doing private instruction, with a repeat student, then it's a whole different deal, with different goals.

My car can pull up to 1 G on a level corner and by the end of the second day I was generally running around .7/.8 G with excursions up to .9/.95 G in the slower corners. This meant there some margin, which was consistent with my #1 objective of being able to drive the car home.
Street tires? With any R-comp or even hot street rubber, you should easily be able to break 1.0G in the corners, without being on the edge. Also, slow corner, fast corner, they're all the same, as long as you stay within your grip budget. The main difference is how far you slide when you push past the envelope. Your main objective, though was a good one!

 

Sleeper_08

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Speaking as an instructor, there is a decidedly good chance that the "stay off the curbs" and "brake in a straight line" bits were organization mandated. I instruct with several organizations, and they all have different approaches to what we should and should not be teaching our students. As a rule of thumb, hitting the curbs and trail-braking will upset the car, and when you're in the right seat with a guy you just met, with uncertain car-control skills, an upset car is the last thing you want. I usually do it that way too, until I get a feel for whether the driver and car can handle those types of maneuvers. Now, if I was doing private instruction, with a repeat student, then it's a whole different deal, with different goals.

Street tires? With any R-comp or even hot street rubber, you should easily be able to break 1.0G in the corners, without being on the edge. Also, slow corner, fast corner, they're all the same, as long as you stay within your grip budget. The main difference is how far you slide when you push past the envelope. Your main objective, though was a good one!



Your comments about instructors are valid. I the US there may also be a bigger concern about liability.

In my case, the instructor, Gerry Low, has instructed me a few times. A few weeks ago he also drove my car and so knows what it is capable of. Thanks to his urging I was up to nearly one G going through 10 on one lap.

Once on track it was pretty clear that the first set of small esses, turn 6, becomes almost a straight line if the car and driver can handle the curbs. It was also a blast and let me catch up to a few who were being more conservative.

This is also the approach suggested by Randy Pobst in his video.

I seem to run higher G forces in slow corners probably due to self and car preservation kicking in on the faster corners - i.e your "The main difference is how far you slide when you push past the envelope" effect kicking in.

On the Nitto NT01's 1 G seems to be about the limit. It may be due to not having enough negative camber on the front end.
 

Gray Ghost GT

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Mike, I will see you there in May at the SVT event. Are you bringing the Mustang or the Vette?

BJ

BJ, I'll see you there with the Corvette. We'll have a great time. Hope to see you guys parked up on the hill with us again. Mike
 

Gray Ghost GT

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Good Review, I moved to Dc and have been looking for a possible road course. This is about 2 hours away, definitely worth checking out!

Come out to a Northern Virginia Mustang Club (NVCM) meeting and we'll get you up to speed on the local tracks, etc. I'm on that forum and can help out. Mike
 

swat 79

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Come out to a Northern Virginia Mustang Club (NVCM) meeting and we'll get you up to speed on the local tracks, etc. I'm on that forum and can help out. Mike

Awesome, I'll definitely be checking this out. I just moved to DC full time and am trying to get a feel for the car scene...there aren't too many fun roads in DC haha
 
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