Oil Pan and Engine Advice

[Autokyrios]

I know a lot about most things of these cars, but one of the things I've never messed with directly is the engine internals. I've just never had the place or resources to mess with it, so I've always left it alone.

Things have changed and for my rebuild project I got the bug up to do a little, starting with putting on a new oil pan.

Its a simple little project (I believe) and I figured some others might enjoy the thread and my questions.

Before I did anything, though, I got the old oil pan off.
Now if you've never done this, it's kinda a big deal. I mean, I've got 135K+ miles on this engine, at least half of which is racing, and I haven't had any issues but I was on the edge of my seat (even while on my back on the slab) waiting to see what was inside. I didn't know what to expect...nothing...chunks of metal...sludge...something that screamed at me...IDK.

She's been sitting for about a year (6 weeks to the day actually) so cold and settled.
She was due for an oil change when I put her up on jacks a year ago.

In my novice opinion, having not done this myself, I think it looks surprisingly good, no?
No signs of metal, no metallic, magnet picked up nothing (plug and wand).
Towels showed oil but nothing that jumps out. Smelled great and no sludge. Honestly aside from the oil being dark, I think it looked good.




So first question: What do those of you with more experience in these things think?

Second, is there anything I should check while I have the bottom open?
If this was suspension or some other bit of the car, I'd go over the bolts to check spec, but I'm not sure if I should mess with anything?

Lastly, I'm putting in a Canton baffled oil pan and their windage tray (also the gasket that goes with it).
The Canton windage tray seems to bolt in with the pan and not up inside. Do I take the stock windage tray out and just run the Canton one? Both? I'm probably missing something obvious but we all learn.

 

[Autokyrios]

Thought for sure I'd have some kind of response by now.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Your engine looks really clean inside and clearly has received a lot of TLC. At 135k miles you shouldn't need to do anything on the bottom end. If the engine still runs great and doesn't burn any oil, just button it back up again. It's nice to see no pieces of timing chain guide sitting in the oil pan.
I expect you'd have to remove the stock windage tray in order to install the Canton unit and yes, you'd need a gasket on each side.
The Canton oil pan will be good insurance against oil starvation when you put the car through high lateral G forces. At this point you could think about installing an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, and perhaps also an aftermarket oil temperature gauge.

 

[Autokyrios]

Your engine looks really clean inside and clearly has received a lot of TLC. At 135k miles you shouldn't need to do anything on the bottom end. If the engine still runs great and doesn't burn any oil, just button it back up again. It's nice to see no pieces of timing chain guide sitting in the oil pan.
I expect you'd have to remove the stock windage tray in order to install the Canton unit and yes, you'd need a gasket on each side.
The Canton oil pan will be good insurance against oil starvation when you put the car through high lateral G forces. At this point you could think about installing an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, and perhaps also an aftermarket oil temperature gauge.

Thanks! I'm not ashamed to say it gets plenty of TLC. I'm actually a little surprised myself as I certainly didn't keep from thrashing it on the tracks/back-roads.

I'm going to do some cams and while I'm in there replace the followers and lash adjusters. From what I have read/watched, it's an easy process when the cams are out so figured I should go ahead and do it.

I'm wondering if I should replace the timing chains/guides, but honestly I have no idea how to time an engine and I'm not ashamed to say I'm nervous about messing with that. I've read the Ford manual for replacing the chains, but the manual made it seem easier than I suspect it is.

Always open to advice. Anything I can do to make sure it stays happy.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I'm wondering if I should replace the timing chains/guides, but honestly I have no idea how to time an engine and I'm not ashamed to say I'm nervous about messing with that. I've read the Ford manual for replacing the chains, but the manual made it seem easier than I suspect it is.

This video makes it look easy:

Ignore the fact that it's a 5.4. The procedure is exactly the same for the 4.6.

 

[Autokyrios]

Everything I'm seeing seems to point that there is a left and right chain, each with marked links that line up with the phaser and crank marks, and it's as simple as just hanging the chain on at those marks. For some reason I feel there's a caveat I'm missing.

I hate being a noob about this kind of stuff, but I haven't had a place where I can mess with the engine until very recently, so I've never bothered. Kinda like that first time you do your own brakes and you're worried you'll screw something up, then you realize how stupid simple it is and feel like an idiot for worrying about it.

 

[FredB66]

The chain installation really is that straight forward. Just line up the marked links and make sure everything is torqued properly. One thing to note is that after installing them, if you start turning the crank, the marks won't line up again until many turns later (something like 58 turns). Once the timing cover is on and the crank is turned its its really difficult check timing, so give everything one last look before the cover goes on. I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but if you haven't already, consider replacing the oil pump while your in there with a Melling or GT500 pump.

 

[Autokyrios]

Might just replace the timing gear while I'm at it. I'm sure if I have any problems I can jump in here. Been wanting to clean the front cover (and maybe paint it) for some time.

Will do some thinking about the oil pump. Thanks.

 

[DieHarder]

Might just replace the timing gear while I'm at it. I'm sure if I have any problems I can jump in here. Been wanting to clean the front cover (and maybe paint it) for some time.

Will do some thinking about the oil pump. Thanks.

If you're going to go to all of the trouble to take the front cover off DO THE OIL PUMP (get billet gears)! It's cheap insurance. Especially if you're going to keep racing it. And, I'd recommend adding an oil cooler while you're at it.

 

[Autokyrios]

Yeah, that's what I've concluded. I just needed to look at the process. There's Bound to be something on the way.

As for an oil cooler, yep, already working on that. I just picked up an oil-filter relocation kit so I can plumb in some lines. Working on a duct design to bring air in from the front lower intake. Just working around the brake ducts.

 

[Autokyrios]

New timing gear on its way.

Also ordered a Boundary oil pump with the options.

You guys are a bad influence. I can still hear my wallet screaming.

 

[Midlife Crises]

New timing gear on its way.

Also ordered a Boundary oil pump with the options.

You guys are a bad influence. I can still hear my wallet screaming.

Did you order the Ford Performance timing kit that includes the Phasers, Phaser Bolts, Tensioners, Guides, Chains and Crank Gear? All in one box.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I can still hear my wallet screaming.

Just don't tell the wife because she might then also start screaming!

 

[Autokyrios]

Did you order the Ford Performance timing kit that includes the Phasers, Phaser Bolts, Tensioners, Guides, Chains and Crank Gear? All in one box.

Yeah. After shopping around, that seemed the best thing to do. Only company I saw selling anything else was MMR, who has billet chain guides (with plastic wear strips). Decided not to mess with that as their engine stuff seems to be oriented towards people who tear down their engine more often. Couldn't see anyone else making parts. Boundary has a billet crank sprocket I'll probably be picking up.

 

[Autokyrios]

Couple questions:

1. I see some places selling "upgraded" cast-iron/steel timing chain tensioner units, which are supposedly better than the stock plastic ones? "These Tensioners feature a Fixed Ratchet System that never allows the chain to loosen. This can be of extreme benefit if there is ever a loss of oil pressure." Thoughts?

2. I was looking at getting a billet crank sprocket (why not if I'm in there, right?). When I was having a look through Boundary's offerings, they sell 3 configurations of the crank sprocket, with and without an "integrated spacer".
- Single Keyway without integrated spacer "The single keyway is the factory standard without integrated spacers. The spacers are built in on the tone wheel for aftermarket timing systems."
- Multiple Keyway - which I don't think I want as I'm not changing timing
- Ford OEM with integrated spacers - "This product is for the Ford OEM with an integrated spacer. This product is needed for a OEM timing system (tone wheel) as the spacer is not built into the tone wheel."
I'm thinking my application would be the Ford OEM with spacer, right? I'll probably give them a call but wanted to ask here first.

 

[Midlife Crises]

If you’re not using a two step rev limiter or bouncing off the max rev limiter the stock crank sprocket and tone ring will work just fine. I chose the MMR Billet sprocket because I'm running a blower and too slow to avoid the rev limiter. Later I used the two piece sprocket so I could degree the cams. After getting them set I welded the gears together rather than mess with a second key way.
The chain tensioners are a hole debate in themselves. The plastic tensioners seem to work pretty well until the crappy gasket leaks or you have low oil pressure. The ratcheting type still uses oil pressure to adjust tension but has a system to prevent collapse and total loss of tension. The down side to the ratchet is it can hold too much tension and eat up the guides. I have not seen this but have read about it. I’m running MMR billet tensioners because they have a O Ring seal but I ground the teeth off the ratchet. I do not plan to loose oil pressure.

 

[whitmanink]

i used the plastic tensioners with the felpro gaskets,
the cause of them to fail was the lack of a gasket, and over time would seep and weep oil and loose the ability to hold the oil pressure,,
i didnt get the metal ones simply because the ford kit came with the plastic ones ,

the mmr billet chain guides i feel are a bit expensive for what they are and do.,
and to be honest , if the engine is taken care of , and odd noises are looked at and fixed in a timely manner , them things should be nothing but "bling" because the guides dont fail , unless lack of oil ,or oil changes ect, ect,

and if the mmr dose fail, the plastic breaks off,, now u got metal on metal and its going all through out the system before you even know whats going on..(altho low it can fail)

not saying you got snake oil ,, but i feel as tho they really arent needed.
i mean do you plan on buying Inconel valves too?

unless your planning on a 8oo rwhp car,, i feel alot of people go overboard with parts and things they say are needed..

the oil gears are another example of no1 knows ,,,,
some say they gears are weak,,
others point to the back plate and it flexing under load causing the gear failure .
so if all thats all thats,, needed is a reinforced backplate, then the stock gears will hold up to all kinds of abuse?

im not bashing anyone or any info out there,
im just saying that i see alot of people throwing the upgrade parts cannon at stuff with no real reason on why

 

[Autokyrios]

My main goal is to put in the best while it's happening. Fate aside, I want to button this up and not have to worry about it; now, or when I add some boost. I don't mind the cost if it's actual good stuff.

I'm not one of these plastic haters, I've worked with some amazing stuff that can give metal a run for it's money. The plastic tensioners in the FP timing kit just seem like factory surplus, and yeah the gaskets seem...weak. I'm sure they're OEM-fine, but are they the best I could put in right now? I kinda feel like the story out there on these is "the plastic ones work fine, but the metal ones are better versions."

As for the crank sprocket, why not put a top notch billet one on when doing the job? It's fairly cheap, and I'm putting in a billet pump/back-plate. Just want to make sure I get the right one.

Not sure about the tone ring. I've heard the stamped metal one can flex at high RPM, but that seems extreme. Maybe if I was driving at red-line constantly pursuing speed records, but I'm not. The stock tone ring seems pretty sturdy.

I have only found 2 companies that make aftermarket chain guides, and the only one that seems still in moderate production of them is MMR. I had the same concerns about the thin plastic wear strips breaking or coming free, not to mention availability should I need a set. Kinda pricey too. Maybe if I fully rebuild the engine someday.

 

[Midlife Crises]

I don’t have a problem with the stock chain guides. They seem to work fine. Upgrading to a quality hi-volume oil pump with steel backplate and billet gears covers known weaknesses and will help maintain the integrity of the valvetrain. If your choice of cams has the VVT active then the additional oil supply will help keep the cams under control. And then there is that crank gear. When I first assembled my engine I used the FP timing kit gear. It slid snugly on the crank snout with just a little resistance. Less than a year later I was chasing funny noises and found a broken tensioner arm dowel on the left side. That crank gear was not as snug as when installed and slid right off by hand. That bothered me so I replaced it with the MMR piece. I replaced the broken dowel with the next size larger and removed the two step launch control that was beating the hell out of the cam drive system. It is very clear the cam drive components don’t like the stutter effect of banging off a limiter. Also I do not exceed 7,000 rpm and try to shift around 6,500. Moral of the story, if you’re gonna beat on it build it to take it. The first time!

 

[skwerl]

Late piping in here. Midlife Crisis has made some good points and offered solid advice. I just did timing chains on a 5.4 a couple years ago and yes, I upgraded the oil pump to a Melling (never heard of that other brand). I also did rockers and followers using the Ford Racing kit. Piece of cake if you do it by removing the cams. Get everything in place and then put the cam back on, slowly snugging the bolts a little at a time as you work your way around. I will say to take a picture of the old timing chain tensioners before removing because it is easy to put them on in the wrong place.