P0316 code - Engine not starting

[MustASH]

Happen on track during lapping session, finished on a towing for coming back home...

Engine won't start, or runs for 4-5 seconds then stops. I changed sparkplugs today. Will change fuel filter this weekend.

Seems like no fuel going to the engine since the plugs looks all dry when I look to it.

I suspect fuel filter or pump...

Any other idea ?

Thanks

EDIT :

Potential causes of this misfire code may include:

Damaged or defective Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP)
CKP sensor wiring or connector fault
Poor fuel quality
Ran out of fuel
Ignition system malfunction
Fuel system malfunction: injector or fuel pump
Mechanical engine problem
Damaged PCM

 

[stkjock]

Can u hear the fuel pump running ?

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Fuel pump, FPDM, or fuel pump relay. Of course first check that you don't have a restricted fuel filter or water in the gas or just bad gas.

You can always pull the relay first a with a meter check to see if the relay signal comes on shortly at key "on" to prime the system. A test light will also suffice. Then check to make sure 12 is present on the contact common that will then trigger the FPDM. Also check the coil on the relay for resistance (out of the vehicle). Likely all of this is fine, but it is good trouble shooting. That leaves FPDM (Fuel pump driver module) or fuel pump on the supply side. You should be able to measure the output of the FPDM to the fuel pump with a multimeter. I used to have a full set of prints for 05-09 and tech manuals but gave them to a friend after I traded for a 13 a couple years back. Fuel injectors can be checked with a test light to see that they are getting trigger signals to open/close from the PCM. I would rule out injectors however since the car runs for a short time then shuts off. So that again takes you back to fuel pump or FPDM. PCM possible, but remote if the fuel pump relay trigger you checked earlier is present. Sorry I can't give you more specifics. If I had those schematics we could get down to business. Remember as well this is a closed system. There is a pressure sensor on the fuel rail that regulates the FPDM which drives the fuel pump. That could also be a possible issue. But I do concur with above it is likely fuel pump or FPDM.

 

[MustASH]

Fuel pump, FPDM, or fuel pump relay. Of course first check that you don't have a restricted fuel filter or water in the gas or just bad gas.

You can always pull the relay first a with a meter check to see if the relay signal comes on shortly at key "on" to prime the system. A test light will also suffice. Then check to make sure 12 is present on the contact common that will then trigger the FPDM. Also check the coil on the relay for resistance (out of the vehicle). Likely all of this is fine, but it is good trouble shooting. That leaves FPDM (Fuel pump driver module) or fuel pump on the supply side. You should be able to measure the output of the FPDM to the fuel pump with a multimeter. I used to have a full set of prints for 05-09 and tech manuals but gave them to a friend after I traded for a 13 a couple years back. Fuel injectors can be checked with a test light to see that they are getting trigger signals to open/close from the PCM. I would rule out injectors however since the car runs for a short time then shuts off. So that again takes you back to fuel pump or FPDM. PCM possible, but remote if the fuel pump relay trigger you checked earlier is present. Sorry I can't give you more specifics. If I had those schematics we could get down to business. Remember as well this is a closed system. There is a pressure sensor on the fuel rail that regulates the FPDM which drives the fuel pump. That could also be a possible issue. But I do concur with above it is likely fuel pump or FPDM.

It's hard to tell if I got bad gas but, I replaced fuel filter, I can hear pump on ignition, plugs are new, TB and MAF cleaned, still crank but no start or running few seconds... I'll check the FPDM and pump voltage/values tomorrow. I fear one of these two modules are bad... $$$

Note that after fuel filter replacement, engine runs fine for more than 20-30 seconds... then dies, and after runs for only 10-15 seconds, then 5-10, until not starting at all.

 

[BruceH]

Have you looked at rail psi? It can be done with a data log or with an sct. Pressure to the rail would indicate that the rest of the fuel system is doing it's job. Something else to check would be to take the vacuum line off of the frps and smell for fuel, it shouldn't smell like gas. If it does then the frps diaphragm is ruptured.

 

[MustASH]

Have you looked at rail psi? It can be done with a data log or with an sct. Pressure to the rail would indicate that the rest of the fuel system is doing it's job. Something else to check would be to take the vacuum line off of the frps and smell for fuel, it shouldn't smell like gas. If it does then the frps diaphragm is ruptured.

Does engine needs to run in order to read fuel pressure ?


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[BruceH]

Does engine needs to run in order to read fuel pressure ?


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No. Just need the key on.

 

[JeremyH]

It's hard to tell if I got bad gas but, I replaced fuel filter, I can hear pump on ignition, plugs are new, TB and MAF cleaned, still crank but no start or running few seconds... I'll check the FPDM and pump voltage/values tomorrow. I fear one of these two modules are bad... $$$

Note that after fuel filter replacement, engine runs fine for more than 20-30 seconds... then dies, and after runs for only 10-15 seconds, then 5-10, until not starting at all.

Are you only seeing the one code?

FPDM's rarely if ever fail they have built in thermal shutdown protection as well so if you get a pump short or overdraw they shut off until they cool down.

What year car and is it the stock fuel pump?

Sounds like lack of fuel causing the misfire, I agree being able to read fuel pressure will shine a lot of light on whats going on.

Also wont hurt to look over all the fuses and relays.

 

[MustASH]

Are you only seeing the one code?

FPDM's rarely if ever fail they have built in thermal shutdown protection as well so if you get a pump short or overdraw they shut off until they cool down.

What year car and is it the stock fuel pump?

Sounds like lack of fuel causing the misfire, I agree being able to read fuel pressure will shine a lot of light on whats going on.

Also wont hurt to look over all the fuses and relays.

My car is '05 GT, stock fuel pump, stock FPDM. The car ran fine until it starts to buck last week on a lapping session. I mostly track (lapping) the car 95%, and EVERYTHING overheat on that car..... Transmission, diff, engine, brakes, everything.

My SCT read the P0316 code once, but no code at all since I cleared it.

I'll have a fuel pressure reading tomorrow with a fuel pressure gauge, then keep you posted. Hopefully I can find something until next weekup cause i'm registred on a Time Attack event on sunday 10th, and not refundable.... Damn !

Thanks for the hints, I appreciate it MUCH.

 

[BruceH]

My car is '05 GT, stock fuel pump, stock FPDM. The car ran fine until it starts to buck last week on a lapping session. I mostly track (lapping) the car 95%, and EVERYTHING overheat on that car..... Transmission, diff, engine, brakes, everything.

My SCT read the P0316 code once, but no code at all since I cleared it.

I'll have a fuel pressure reading tomorrow with a fuel pressure gauge, then keep you posted. Hopefully I can find something until next weekup cause i'm registred on a Time Attack event on sunday 10th, and not refundable.... Damn !

Thanks for the hints, I appreciate it MUCH.

You don't need a gauge, you can read it from the pcm. Your sct has the capability to read many parameters. All you have to do is plug it in and select data logging, then choose the parameters you want to monitor.

 

[MustASH]

You don't need a gauge, you can read it from the pcm. Your sct has the capability to read many parameters. All you have to do is plug it in and select data logging, then choose the parameters you want to monitor.

I checked earlier, what is the parameter to check for fuel pressure reading ? I didn't see nothing about fuel ?

 

[BruceH]

I checked earlier, what is the parameter to check for fuel pressure reading ? I didn't see nothing about fuel ?

rf dpref is what I use with livelink. Pressure drop across the injectors will also work. IIRC that one is PRES_DROP_F_INJ.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Sounds like baisc electrical is go other than the potential for the thermal/overcurrent startegy in teh FPDM that jeremy mentions which could kick out hte FUel pump when an overcurrent situation arises. This could be anything from binding mechanically to lost resistance in the winding under load.

Fuel pressure at the rail should shed more light on that. I'm unaware of where that can be datalogged in the SCT X3 which I have. I have looked for fuel rail pressure as well as fuel injector duty cycle. I am told Fuel ump duty cycle which I have found only applies to the GT500 setups. Don't know. Fuel trims I have seen but don't think that applies here.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

rf dpref is what I use with livelink. Pressure drop across the injectors will also work. IIRC that one is PRES_DROP_F_INJ.

Thanks. I will look for that as well next datalog i setup. Do you know it that is fuel rail pressure data from the fuel rail pressure sensor? I can't think of anything else that would provide pressure feedback on this system. Then again this may not apply to the Coyote newer PCM. Thanks.

 

[JeremyH]

My car is '05 GT, stock fuel pump, stock FPDM. The car ran fine until it starts to buck last week on a lapping session. I mostly track (lapping) the car 95%, and EVERYTHING overheat on that car..... Transmission, diff, engine, brakes, everything.

My SCT read the P0316 code once, but no code at all since I cleared it.

I'll have a fuel pressure reading tomorrow with a fuel pressure gauge, then keep you posted. Hopefully I can find something until next weekup cause i'm registred on a Time Attack event on sunday 10th, and not refundable.... Damn !

Thanks for the hints, I appreciate it MUCH.

Ah that's good information to have, based on that first thing I would do is replace your fuel hat with a lightly used 07-09 hat. There is a tsb out for long cruise hesitation, it seems most evident when the fuel is hot and you get these starvation/hesitation fail to start issues on the 05/06 fuel hats. It is definitely more pronounced and shows its head more often when hot lapping or tracking the car. The hat was redesigned in 07 and the fix from Ford is to replace the fuel hat with the newer one 07+ one.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Thanks. I will look for that as well next datalog i setup. Do you know it that is fuel rail pressure data from the fuel rail pressure sensor? I can't think of anything else that would provide pressure feedback on this system. Then again this may not apply to the Coyote newer PCM. Thanks.

Never mind. Found it when I had access to my laptop. Just need to convert it to psi vice kpa.

 

[MustASH]

Ah that's good information to have, based on that first thing I would do is replace your fuel hat with a lightly used 07-09 hat. There is a tsb out for long cruise hesitation, it seems most evident when the fuel is hot and you get these starvation/hesitation fail to start issues on the 05/06 fuel hats. It is definitely more pronounced and shows its head more often when hot lapping or tracking the car. The hat was redesigned in 07 and the fix from Ford is to replace the fuel hat with the newer one 07+ one.

Thanks !!

I just found a 08 GT used pump. I'll test it tonite, plus take some pressure and voltage reading.

Keep you posted.




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[MustASH]

Btw I tried to datalog yesterday night after couple beers and I wasn't able to makes Livelink communicates with the car. SCT/Livelink drivers updated. I didn't tried that much, I'd like to figure out the right procedure before to test it again.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

^^^ Believe me if I can do you can do it. I wasn't trying after a couple of Labatt's though. LOL! Follow the GUIDE ME STEPS. However before opening the software on your laptop, plug in the SCT tuner and make sure it sinks with the laptop first. Then turn the key on your ignition to on and plug in your SCT tuner. There is nothing needed to do with the sct tuner after that. Simply double click the livelink icon and follow the guide me steps. MAKE SURE YOU VALIDATE PIDS! This will ensure that all PIDS that apply to your vehicle are present only. Car must be turned to on (not running) to do this. You can select all and datalog or simply select the ones you wish to use. Then click the start button located upper left. It will take a about 10-15 seconds to begin logging. You will see a progress bar in the lower left corner which will tell you logging process has completed and logging is active. I've not done this a lot, but enough to hammer through it on my own. Hope my sloppy directions help some.

Hope the tophat resolves your issue. Let us know. Thanks.

 

[MustASH]

Finally

https://vimeo.com/173614007


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