Please help diagnose engine noise - S/C Roush 4.6L 3V

[Mojo88]

Car is 2010 supercharged Roush, 4.6L 3V, 24psi boost, 625rwhp. Earlier this season, I went for a ride and noticed an engine noise. When I revved the engine a little bit, it sounded like a chain was rubbing against something, so I immediately suspected a broken chain guide.

So I bought new Ford timing chains, heavy duty MMR guides, along with two new Ford phasers, and two cast iron tensioners. Heck, I even bought a new timing chain cover, cause it was so cheap, haha.

Anyway, I take off the timing chain cover and I see no problems at all. Nada, the chains and guides are perfect. Tensioners and phasers, I'm not sure. I'm gonna replace all these parts anyway, since I already bought the stuff.

My next suspect(s) is a valve spring. Maybe a broken valve spring, or possible a rocker?? Any thoughts are welcome. I'm kinda stumped, and worried........... Thanks

 

[86GT351]

With the valve covers off, when you rotate the engine to Top Dead Center visually look at all the cam followers as well.

 

[msvela448]

Two things... You should use the cast iron "Cobra" (2003-2004) tensioners, and you should look at getting the "Cobra Engineering (brand)" billet guide dowel pins.

If you do valve springs... I recommend PAC 1233.

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[Midlife Crises]

If you use the old style iron bodied tensioners that ratchet you should remove the plungers and grind or file the teeth off the shank. They still have spring tension and will pump up hydraulically but will not lock and over tension the timing chains.

 

[Mojo88]

If you use the old style iron bodied tensioners that ratchet you should remove the plungers and grind or file the teeth off the shank. They still have spring tension and will pump up hydraulically but will not lock and over tension the timing chains.

Two things... You should use the cast iron "Cobra" (2003-2004) tensioners, and you should look at getting the "Cobra Engineering (brand)" billet guide dowel pins.
If you do valve springs... I recommend PAC 1233.

I bought the cast iron tensioners from Summit. They are Melling BT403 and BT402. Are these gonna be OK to use??

I plan on removing the cams, and also the valve springs and all rockers for inspection. Is there a good video or tutorial around that shows how to do this and the best tools to use? I've been a big-block Chevy guy most of my life, so I'm a little out of my comfort zone with this engine...........

Many thanks for the help gents!!!

 

[GriffX]

Fordtechmakuloco had a video above a new tensioner revision ?
He has also lots of vids about camshaft.

 

[msvela448]

Fordtechmakuloco had a video above a new tensioner revision ?
He has also lots of vids about camshaft.

+1.... Search on YouTube for FordTechMakuloco and then within his page search for something like Ford 3V timing chain replacement, or Ford 3V cam replacement... Etc.

All I can tell you from personal experience is that changing out the valve springs is easiest with the heads off (unless you have the air compressor and spark plug fitting to pressurize the cylinder to hold the valves up). The special tool (below) is what I've used to change out valve springs and it will work with the heads on.

https://www.amazon.com/ARES-15001-C...t=&hvlocphy=1014452&hvtargid=pla-821654268403

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[JC SSP]

A lot of people have done this replacement but very few have documented from start to finish.

If you can please do a step by step on the process. Many of us would benefit greatly from it. Thx in advance.

 

[Mojo88]

Fordtechmakuloco had a video above a new tensioner revision ?
He has also lots of vids about camshaft.

Thanks bud! I will search him out..............

 

[Mojo88]

+1.... Search on YouTube for FordTechMakuloco and then within his page search for something like Ford 3V timing chain replacement, or Ford 3V cam replacement... Etc.

All I can tell you from personal experience is that changing out the valve springs is easiest with the heads off (unless you have the air compressor and spark plug fitting to pressurize the cylinder to hold the valves up). The special tool (below) is what I've used to change out valve springs and it will work with the heads on.

https://www.amazon.com/ARES-15001-C...t=&hvlocphy=1014452&hvtargid=pla-821654268403

Yeah man, I agree totally..... it would be much easier having the heads off, but I hate the thought of going through all that extra work just for a valve spring or rocker. If the noise was 'heavier' I would have pulled the engine out. But it was a lighter sound.

I have lots of tools, and a lift in my a garage, I owned two service stations back in the 70's & 80's (shows how old I am).

Thanks very much for the special tool link. Pic below shows where I'm at. I have clear access on both sides. Spark plugs came out easy.

 

[Mojo88]

A lot of people have done this replacement but very few have documented from start to finish.

If you can please do a step by step on the process. Many of us would benefit greatly from it. Thx in advance.

Thanks, I'm a pretty good wrencher, no doubt. And if I was a Mustang 'expert' I would consider this. If it was a big-block Chevy, then I would feel very qualified to offer guidance, but I hate offering tech tips when I just don't know that much about the idiosyncrasies of something. Getting older makes me realize how much I DON'T KNOW, lol.

 

[Mojo88]

+1.... Search on YouTube for FordTechMakuloco and then within his page search for something like Ford 3V timing chain replacement, or Ford 3V cam replacement... Etc.

All I can tell you from personal experience is that changing out the valve springs is easiest with the heads off (unless you have the air compressor and spark plug fitting to pressurize the cylinder to hold the valves up). The special tool (below) is what I've used to change out valve springs and it will work with the heads on.

https://www.amazon.com/ARES-15001-C...t=&hvlocphy=1014452&hvtargid=pla-821654268403

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

So I just got a box yesterday, which I ordered a few days ago. I opened it to see exactly what's inside, and PRESTO! It looks like I got the right tool. Plus my new kit has a few more parts, like a phaser lock, and some other things which I hope I never have to use, haha.

 

[Midlife Crises]

I can not stress enough just how difficult it is to reach the valve stem locks with the heads on the engine and in the car. I have changed the valve springs a couple times on my 3 valve. Only attempted in the vehicle once and was not successful. After dropping the locks three or four times I pulled the heads so I could reach the little boogers. Once you remove the cams and followers you should have no problem seeing the valve springs.

 

[Badd GT]

I changed my valve springs with heads on car. Used air compressor and spark plug air fitting tool to keep valves from dropping, You need a telescoping magnet and dab of axle grease to keep valve stem locks from dropping off. I used ford valve spring compressor (borrowed from dealership) and it took 8 hrs to do job. Basically easy peasy if you take your time, only one that was difficult was rear driver side due to brake booster, Wifey had to provide extra set of hands on that one.

 

[Badd GT]

https://iihs.net/fsm/?d=165&f=Camshaft - LH.pdf&p=1

read this

 

[BlueDevil]

Here's an old writeup I did a million years ago... hope it helps http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010/220707-comp-127500-spr-cam-install-pics-video.html

 

[Mojo88]

I can not stress enough just how difficult it is to reach the valve stem locks with the heads on the engine and in the car. I have changed the valve springs a couple times on my 3 valve. Only attempted in the vehicle once and was not successful. After dropping the locks three or four times I pulled the heads so I could reach the little boogers. Once you remove the cams and followers you should have no problem seeing the valve springs.

LOL, trust me, blocking off all possible escape exits for those little locks will be priority #1! I especially don't want to see one drop into the engine...

If I lose a few into the car chassis or onto my shop floor, I don't care, I'll buy another full set.

 

[Mojo88]

Here's an old writeup I did a million years ago... hope it helps http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010/220707-comp-127500-spr-cam-install-pics-video.html

Thanks, nice writeup. I especially like the tip about keeping each cyl at TDC while pressurized. In the past, I've always just turned on the air flow and let the engine rotate to BDC. I guess I've just been lucky to never lose air pressure and drop a valve down into the cyl.

I may bug you with a PM if the need arises, if you don't mind.

Your car sounds good with those cams!!

Again, many thanks!

 

[Mojo88]

duplicate

 

[Mojo88]

I changed my valve springs with heads on car. Used air compressor and spark plug air fitting tool to keep valves from dropping, You need a telescoping magnet and dab of axle grease to keep valve stem locks from dropping off. I used ford valve spring compressor (borrowed from dealership) and it took 8 hrs to do job. Basically easy peasy if you take your time, only one that was difficult was rear driver side due to brake booster, Wifey had to provide extra set of hands on that one.

Thanks for info. This whole job is taking me a LOT longer than I anticipated.

Lemme ask, do you think I'll be able to work with the spring compressor I bought (pic above), or should I just go buy one of those Ford compressors? If I have to spend a few hundred bucks more to make the job easier, then that's how I roll.

I plan on removing the cams to make the job easier, plus I want to check the rockers. I think the tool I bought is the wrong one for me. It looks like my new tool is made for removing valve springs with cams in place. Dang

Gracias