Rough idle, P0011

[ghunt81]

I installed some cams over the winter, had a couple hiccups but everything went fairly well. I used assembly lube when I put it all back together. Ran it in the garage several times and it sounded great.

I first drove the car with the cams about a month ago and at first, everything seemed fine, however by the time I made it to work it was idling very rough at a stop and shaking the car, but it drove normally besides that.

It threw a code later that day, P0011 (driver's side cam over advanced), so I took it home and parked it and replaced the driver's side VCT solenoid because I assumed assembly lube or something had gotten into the solenoid and killed it, but when I removed it it looked fine (screens intact, etc).

REGRETTABLY I ordered a Dorman...Rockauto did not list the motorcraft one and I did not find it elsewhere until after I'd already ordered the Dorman.

So, I replaced the solenoid, car ran fine in the garage, I thought it was all good. Took it out for a drive last night, fine for the first mile/couple of stops, went a few more miles down the road and turned around and it's idling rough and shaking the car again. I did not get the check engine light until a couple more miles coming back, and it was again P0011.

Is it possible the Dorman solenoid already failed? Or do I need to replace the phaser as well? Is there any way to test a VCT solenoid for functionality? Should I just order a Motorcraft phaser and solenoid, replace them both and eliminate both possible causes of this problem?

 

[JonT]

I had the opposite happen to my car. Says it's over retarded. I have it at a shop now deciding if I should fix it or sell it. Anyway, the problem I have is the timing chain was off a couple of teeth when I replaced my phasers. So it has to be retimed. You may have the similar problem when you changed your cams.

 

[ghunt81]

If that was the case it would run shitty all the time, not just after I get it up into VCT activation RPM's and then come back down. It's fine when I start it before I drive anywhere, I could let it sit there and idle all day and it would be perfect.

 

[wildbillcody]

Sounds like your phaser is going out. If there the factory ones they already have some age on them then you throw cams on top of that. But usually when you get that code coming up after an install it means its a off a tooth but If it drove fine before its probably just the cam phaser.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

I've seen this several times on f-150's, usually when one of the chain guides break and chain loses tension.

 

[ghunt81]

The chain guides are all good, and the chain had tension on it when I pulled the valve cover off to replace the VCT solenoid.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

The chain guides are all good, and the chain had tension on it when I pulled the valve cover off to replace the VCT solenoid.

Then it sounds like you're a tooth or two off.

 

[CJ-]

You could have sheared the pins that hold the reluctor to the cam gear phaser.

I had this issue with my 05 GT. I was installing a set of new Phasers and as I applied the 30ft lbs of torq on the phaser bolt ... Suddenly the pins sheared on the new phaser and the reluctor wheel rotated clockwise from the phaser gear before I reached 30ft lbs of torq.

Do you remember if the reluctor wheel moved separately from the phaser gear when you were torquing the phaser bolt?

 

[ghunt81]

I installed a new phaser and new motorcraft VCT solenoid, it was fine for a few miles and a few stops and then started doing the rough idle thing again and threw the code, again.

When I installed the new phaser and torqued it the reluctor wheel did not move. I pulled off the valve cover, checked the screen under the allen head bolt, it was clear...metering groove in the front cam cap is clear. Something is screwing up my VCT and I can't figure out what.

 

[hammeron]

if it were me. i would get a revised tune that did not allow for any cam retard at all. the tuner would just zero out all values in the vct tables. this would help you figure out if it is a
vct issue or some other non cam related problem.

 

[JeremyH]

This come comes up for a few reasons, seen it be timing, off, alternator going out, cam caps not torqued properly in the correct order or a tune issue.

What were the hiccups you described during the cam install? I personally have seen it after a cam swap and one cam wasn't properly seated in the first cam cap that has the vct oil channel, even thought he correct torque was reached the cap wasn't seated all the way and at that torque spec the cap bolts can easily come loose, apparently its not too uncommon to happen especially if you don't use the spring compression tool and remove the followers since there is preload on the cam and it doesn't sit true in the head.

First thing I would do check all the cam caps, loosen them and verify cam seated properly and then torque them all to 89 inch/lbs in the correct torqueing order.

Look over the phasers, tensioners and timing as well. Next I would suspect alt or tune issue. Seen it be as simple as reloading an old tune and finding the codes go away so it was an issue in the tune revision.

 

[ghunt81]

Well, yes the hiccups were with the install but I had problems on the passenger side, not the driver's side...the driver's side is what is giving me all the problems right now.

I did check all the cap bolts yesterday and they were still all torqued. I also thought the cam was seated properly because the front cap just pops right on with no difficulty, and all the followers seem to be centered under the lobes. But, I will go through them again.

When I looked up this code it said it was a mechanical problem, not electrical, so could it be caused by an alternator or tune problem especially with the problems I'm experiencing? If there was just a code popping up with no other problems I would be inclined to believe it was something electrical.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

Well, yes the hiccups were with the install but I had problems on the passenger side, not the driver's side...the driver's side is what is giving me all the problems right now.

I did check all the cap bolts yesterday and they were still all torqued. I also thought the cam was seated properly because the front cap just pops right on with no difficulty, and all the followers seem to be centered under the lobes. But, I will go through them again.

When I looked up this code it said it was a mechanical problem, not electrical, so could it be caused by an alternator or tune problem especially with the problems I'm experiencing? If there was just a code popping up with no other problems I would be inclined to believe it was something electrical.

Did you not see my above post? It literally has a list of possible causes. Have you checked any of those?

 

[CJ-]

I installed a new phaser and new motorcraft VCT solenoid, it was fine for a few miles and a few stops and then started doing the rough idle thing again and threw the code, again.

When I installed the new phaser and torqued it the reluctor wheel did not move. I pulled off the valve cover, checked the screen under the allen head bolt, it was clear...metering groove in the front cam cap is clear. Something is screwing up my VCT and I can't figure out what.

Im telling you man, its going to be your new Phaser that is the problem.

When i installed my new phaser (the one that sheared during installation), the reluctor did move back to its correct orientation once i stopped torquing it, so it appeared fine. It wasnt until i got about 15 miles down the road that the rough idle, CEL and chattering came back.

When i removed the cam cover to inspect the phaser, everything looked good, even the reluctors orientation with the L and R stamps on the phaser gear. It wasnt until i actually removed the phaser bolt that the reluctor literally fell off the Phaser Gear. Got a free warranty replacement and 4000+ miles later, my engine is still purring like a lion.

At least buy a new phaser bolt so you could try to loosen and remove the bolt to see if its all still intact.

 

[ghunt81]

Did you not see my above post? It literally has a list of possible causes. Have you checked any of those?

Did you not see where I responded? I installed a new phaser and new VCT solenoid. Chain guides are good, tensioners are new. I checked the timing before anyway, and I can't believe it would run fine at idle BEFORE I drive it if the timing was off a tooth. It never acts up until after it is driven to a high enough RPM to activate the VCT.

Im telling you man, its going to be your new Phaser that is the problem.

I'll get a phaser bolt and see but, I can't believe both the old and new phasers could have had that happen. The reluctor wheel didn't move while I was torquing the new one. The only time I saw anything was when removing the old one, the reluctor wheel moved slightly when I was breaking loose the old phaser bolt but that's it.

I did remove the front cam cap again and look at it...the cam looked like it MAY have been the tiniest bit further forward than it should have been but given the amount of play the front cap seems to allow for thrust it should have still been within that. I did break the cap bolts loose, move the cam back a small amount, and retorque them, I don't know if that will make a difference or not.

 

[ghunt81]

Wait a minute, have I been messing with the wrong side of the engine this whole time? Is Bank 1 the passenger side? I'm confused, some places say P0011 is the Bank 1 cam(which I'm reading is passenger side) and some others say P0011 is the left cam...which is it? Maybe that's been my issue, I'm looking for a problem in the wrong freaking place.

 

[hammeron]

bank 1 is passenger side. it is also referred to as the Right side.

 

[deebo05]

bank 1 is passenger side

 

[ghunt81]

Man I'm a dumbass

 

[hammeron]

Man I'm a dumbass

no, you realized a mistake and corrected it. just like most of us.