Roush M90 interesting mod

[Pentalab]

I haven't been able to find a cone style CAI to fit my 2010 JLt and others have said they don't make one...

http://vmptuning.com/superchargers/19tvsm90/ Scroll way down. VMP sez both JLT and also roush make a cone style CAI for the 2010.

BTW...I tossed the oem upper grille on my 2010..and replaced it with a 7 bar grille from Mr Bodykit. Superb piece. Mounts in 6 places vs only 4 for the roush version. Airflow through the upper grille increased by a huge amount. The oem upper grille is fubar..it blocks 80% of the airflow. The 7 bar grill also eliminates the 2 x 90 deg bends into the "snorkel" that feeds the oem airbox. It's now ram air straight in. Boost went up a bit..esp > 50 mph. Several other's have also noticed the same effect. Also now way more air into the upper portion of the roush HE..and ditto with the various rads behind it.

OK, so I lost the oem foglamps... no big deal. I replaced the semi useless oem headlights with 8000K HID's also from mr bodykit. The pair of new 8000K headlights are WAY brighter than the oem headlights + foglamps combined. The car looks one helluva lot better.

I tried an experiment and instead of installing the 2.55" / 2.49" pulley.... I kept the oem Roush 73mm pulley. Instead, I installed the FRPP twin 62mm TB..and also JBA ceramic LT's and high flow catted H. Then the DSS-DS. Then retuned the entire mess for 94 octane. RWHP /TQ went up a whole bunch... 40 rwhp. Another 60 ft lbs of rwtq at 2200 rpm too. Eng bay temps dropped a good 40 deg F.

I have the new VMP TVS-1900 still sitting in the box, waiting to be installed. At 8 psi, the 1900 blower eats up 28 hp off the crank..... vs 72 hp for the M90 + 2.49" pulley. That will take a load off the belt, the tensioner, and also the crankshaft bearing. It frees up 44 hp. That's another 44 crank hp. Blower outlet temps (pre-ic) will be way down as well. The VMP TVS- 1900 has a 25% bigger intake than the roush TVS-2300.

The 1900 is a straight swap for the M90. Ok, then you can change pulley's real easy, with 8 to choose from.
(85mm-63mm)

 

[skwerl]

Jimbo, those only fit the GT500 size throttle body. I spent a lot of time looking for something to use on my M90 and there's nothing out there. Justin wasn't aware of anything that would work either.

 

[Pentalab]

Jimbo, those only fit the GT500 size throttle body. I spent a lot of time looking for something to use on my M90 and there's nothing out there. Justin wasn't aware of anything that would work either.

Point well taken. So the JLT /Roush cai can only be used with the twin 60/65mm GT-500 TB. In which case the only way to make it work is if a TVS-1900 conversion is done...and you opt for the GT-500 elbow. At least VMP offers 2 x elbows.... the 2nd one is for the twin 55 and twin 62mm TB.

Nobody is making a cone style cai for the 2010 M90...I can see why. The 2010 box already flows 980 cfm as is.. (with a K+N drop in panel filter).

 

[eighty6gt]

I thought that the 1900 didn't really have any lower IAT's. Per Brian's experience.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Brian has always had intake temp issues...
He may not be a good example.

 

[eighty6gt]

Swapping head units and having the same "high" temperatures either way indicates the head unit is not helping out. Even with issues elsewhere in the system, if the new compressor were running cooler you'd see a drop in your numbers.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Swapping head units and having the same "high" temperatures either way indicates the head unit is not helping out. Even with issues elsewhere in the system, if the new compressor were running cooler you'd see a drop in your numbers.

Not if your cooling system is deficient...
I think Brian has issues with his cooling systems; supercharger and/or engine cooling.

Another thing could have been his air temp sensor.

I don't believe Skwerl's intake air temps were representative of the 1.9L TVS.
We would need a 2nd and 3rd sample to validate that since Brian had high temps with his M90.

Remember, I ran my M90 with a 2.49" pulley and 12% OD crank pulley and never had the temps Brian had with a mild setup.

 

[skwerl]

I believe my IAT issues stemmed from my Afco dual fan heat exchanger. It had foreign material in it when I bought it and I spent weeks trying to flush it out. I think it had one of those gel pack moisture absorption packets inside the heat exchanger. The last time I pulled out the intercooler and back flushed the system about 4-5 times I finally got my coolant flow up to 4gpm which helped a lot.

 

[justinsstang]

Remember, I ran my M90 with a 2.49" pulley and 12% OD crank pulley and never had the temps Brian had with a mild setup.

How much power were you getting with the 2.49 and 12% OD? I really assumed it would be running so hot at that point that you wouldn't see any gains at all...
And what were you running cooling wise? I haven't even got my M90 on yet and am just scared to death of the high IATs I keep reading about. Already thinking of ways to lower it. I do have the 2010 HE though which apparently is pretty awesome compared to the GT500 one and the 05-09 one.

I may actually choose Pacesetter LTs over Pypes just because they come ceramic coated and I can get them new with the armor coat for $342.

 

[eighty6gt]

Example:

Temp with deficient intercooler, M90: 150 degrees
Temp with deficient intercooler, 1.9 TVS: 150 degrees

Temp with repaired intercooler, M90: 130 degrees
Temp with repaired intercooler, 1.9 TVS: 130 degrees

I'm short on time, does this explain what I mean?

 

[eighty6gt]

There is nothing to be afraid of with IAT's. If they get very high, the system pulls timing. I get this about 3 times a year with a completely stock intercooling system, 50/50 water/glycol, and a 2.49 pulley.

Disclaimer: I live in a very cold climate.

 

[justinsstang]

There is nothing to be afraid of with IAT's. If they get very high, the system pulls timing. I get this about 3 times a year with a completely stock intercooling system, 50/50 water/glycol, and a 2.49 pulley.

Disclaimer: I live in a very cold climate.

I live in Illinois. 100+ degree summers at times, and it got down to 4 degrees this winter I believe. Might have been 8

 

[mpm_1]

justin - here's a datalog of intake manifold air temp during a few WOT runs on a 90F degree day - this is with standard crank pulley and the 2.49" blower pulley

 

[justinsstang]

Hey not bad, looks like 132ish? What temp does it start pulling timing? Very helpful!

 

[eighty6gt]

I think it's around 152, you'd have to check with your tuner.

 

[mpm_1]

Hey not bad, looks like 132ish? What temp does it start pulling timing? Very helpful!

this log topped out at 130... can't recall when timing gets pulled but i'm not sure i've ever hit that point either... i don't hot lap the car so keep that in mind....

i have my aeroforce gauge set to alarm / blink at 135 iat and the only time i've ever seen it do that is hot idle or after key on after a hot shut down (like at the gas pump)... this condition really doesn't have anything to do with the M90 but more to do with the whole mess being aluminum with hot coolant running through the IC... then add in the low mass, slow speed of idle air which gets hot quick

but, it comes down fast once you get some air flowing...

could you be at a red light and be down on power at launch? yeah maybe, but again not unique to the M90 i don't think

the M90 is a cost effective way to take the stock 3V close to its limit... if a guy wants more than that then probably not the best choice...

i know i know

 

[AutoXRacer]

How much power were you getting with the 2.49 and 12% OD? I really assumed it would be running so hot at that point that you wouldn't see any gains at all...
And what were you running cooling wise? I haven't even got my M90 on yet and am just scared to death of the high IATs I keep reading about. Already thinking of ways to lower it. I do have the 2010 HE though which apparently is pretty awesome compared to the GT500 one and the 05-09 one.

I may actually choose Pacesetter LTs over Pypes just because they come ceramic coated and I can get them new with the armor coat for $342.

I had a totally stock motor and exhaust (ROUSH stock), but had the 2.57 pulley, 12% OD crank, FRPP throttle body, AFCO dual fan, and GT500 fuel pumps and made 440rwhp and 450rwtq.

My cruising temps in the summer in FL (Orlando) were 110-120.
At WOT, my temps would drop to 107 and slowly creep up to 130-ish at the end of the 1/4 mile.

The only time I saw temps above 130 is during stop and go traffic. But as soon as I started moving and getting air flow through the heat exchange, my temps would instantly plummet to 120s (remember, this is dead middle of summer). Winter time, it was 90-110 degree temps while cruising.

I did peak around 150 temps in the middle of summer when I parked the car for short intervals. Meaning parking the car for 10-15 mins at a time.

But again, as soon as I started moving, my temps plummeted to the 120s.

I personally would not worry about it.

Oh BTW, the PCM starts pulling timing at 135 degrees...
It really depends on your tuner and what temp they set the PCM to pull timing. Typically its 135.

MPM1 is right, the M90 is maxed at roughly 450rwhp. But now with the 1.9L TVS, its a whole new ball game with capability of making north of 600rwhp.

 

[Pentalab]

The Roush tune that came with my 2010 M90 had the timing being pulled at 150 deg F. The same Roush software genious's also had the timing out to 29 degs at wot.

86GT. The 1900 outlet temps are way down per vmp... (pre-IC) vs a sped up M90. Now toss in the IC, hot block, hot blower casing cuz the 1900 / M90 is bolted to a hot aluminum manifold that is bolted to the the hot aluminum block....and I can see why IAT's might not be down too much. The water crossover is built into the leading edge of the roush aluminum manifold too. So now you got 194-204 deg F hot eng coolant water flowing through the same aluminum manifold.

100% distilled water and 1 jug of redline water wetter for the IC/HE/de-gas/pump loop might be the ideal ticket...at least during hot WX. Then switch to a 50-50 mix of glycol-water during the fall /winter.

Replacing the oem exhaust manifold + oem eng bay mounted cats with ceramic LT's and high flow cats ( cats end up directly below the driver's seat)..will drop the eng bay temps at least 40 deg F. That alone will help the heat situation a bunch.

Jimbo

 

[justinsstang]

I had the 2.57 pulley, 12% OD crank, FRPP throttle body, AFCO dual fan, and GT500 fuel pumps and made 440rwhp and 450rwtq.

How come you never ran the 2.49?

Wondering if I should even try to get a 12% OD pulley since I only have the HE that comes with the 2010 kit and am already going to be using the 2.49.
440/450 is great numbers. If I could get that I'd be pretty happy.

Everyone I've asked has told me there's no need for any fuel upgrades with the exception of the wiring kit from S&H (and of course the 39# injectors that come with the M90), so I have no plans for the GT500 pumps.

What combo should I use to get around that 450/450 range with the 2.49 pulley? Lately I was just planning on running the 2.49 with the stock air intake from 2010 kit and the catless pacesetter longtubes

 

[Mrcharles]

Where are the dyno results?