S197 Mustang in SCCA Solo: STX vs STU vs ESP?

[white86hatch]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/13-fastrack-aug-solo.pdf

Look what they snuck in at the top:
So that means none of these rule fixes, such as the diff cover/watts link update will take effect in 2014... so it looks like we have to wait ANOTHER freagin year. Good grief, these clowns have two speeds: SLOW and STOP!

Write your letters.... maybe this date was a mistake? But to me, everything they write manages to looks like a mistake, so....???


So, if anything is in a FasTrack after July it will take effect next year. Which means some of the classing things are applicable in 2014? But the top part said 2015. Which is it?????? (Facepalm) I honestly don't know if the right hand is talking to the left in this group.



Uh, no.

Add a new 14.8.G.6 as follows:
“6. Differential covers and attaching hardware may be replaced.”

They re-interpreted the watts link "unrestricted" mounting wording in 2012, said they'd fix it immediately, took 8 months to write a 7 word rule allowing them, then will sit on it for 2 years so the fix won't take effect until 2015? They've managed to add yet ONE MORE YEAR to the already slow and arduous process of fixing the watts link/diff cover rule they botched last Fall.

Meetings. Committees. Waiting. Delays. Stalling. Its what you do in the SCCA.



Well, will the new classing take effect in 2014 or 2015? Will C5 Corvettes be classed with stick axle McStrut Mustangs? Who knows... I don't think the rules makers do, by the way.

Want to know the answers to these latest SEB mysteries? KEEP WRITING LETTERS... http://www.sebscca.com/

Just got an email response to my letter. It's 2015 for the rules changes but it looks like 2014 for the class changes. At least if I read it write.

 

[Whiskey11]

Just got an email response to my letter. It's 2015 for the rules changes but it looks like 2014 for the class changes. At least if I read it write.

Care to post the email with identifying material blocked out (if you want?) I'm curious to see if I read the same thing you read.

 

[white86hatch]

Care to post the email with identifying material blocked out (if you want?) I'm curious to see if I read the same thing you read.

Pm me your email address. I'm on my phone at work so I can't.

 

[Whiskey11]

Pm me your email address. I'm on my phone at work so I can't.

Thanks, is it alright if I post them (with info edited out) here?

Based on what I read from those emails, I don't think anything pertaining to Mustangs in STU or the diff cover rule is taking place next year since neither the proposed diff cover rule (which was sent to the BOD for approval in October) or the STU move have dates associated with them. Terry is correct on that then.

 

[white86hatch]

Thanks, is it alright if I post them (with info edited out) here?

Based on what I read from those emails, I don't think anything pertaining to Mustangs in STU or the diff cover rule is taking place next year since neither the proposed diff cover rule (which was sent to the BOD for approval in October) or the STU move have dates associated with them. Terry is correct on that then.

Go for it.

 

[Whiskey11]

Go for it.

You got it:

Here are the emails from Brian Harmer to white86hatch:

Hi, white86hatch,

Your question about the 2015 versus 2014 can be answered by me and not the SEB. It is not a typo. The way our rules process works is things have to be propose to members by a certain date to be considered for a change in the following year. Also sometimes the SEB wants to get a proposal out and get people thinking about it but hold off on when a rules change would take effect.

Hi, white86hatch,

FasTrack will state which ones would be effective for 2014 and which ones for 2015. Remember though all rules change proposals have to go to the Board of Directors to vote on in October.

The diff rule might still be 2014, since it's been moved for BOD approval and it's before the October vote for the BOD but it might not take effect until 2015? I don't know.

Sometimes I really hate the politicking that goes on with these rule changes. There isn't a soul in the SCCA who thinks any generation of Mustang is going to be a real threat in STU and the diff cover rule wont change that. Just get these moves over with and lets move on with our racing already!

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Just got an email response to my letter. It's 2015 for the rules changes but it looks like 2014 for the class changes. At least if I read it write.

Hehehe... figures. Delay the diff cover update long enough and it won't even matter. The all-new IRS Mustang will already be out by the time this update takes effect. A simple seven word rules fix that was 2.5 years in the making! And of course had no bearing on performance whatsoever... so of course they delayed it.

And then there's the "Oh while we're at it, let's just go ahead and slide this C5 into STU also..."

One of these things is not like the other...

 

[Whiskey11]

Hehehe... figures. Delay the diff cover update long enough and it won't even matter. The all-new IRS Mustang will already be out by the time this update takes effect. A simple seven word rules fix that was 2.5 years in the making! And of course had no bearing on performance whatsoever... so of course they delayed it.

And then there's the "Oh while we're at it, let's just go ahead and slide this C5 into STU also..."

One of these things is not like the other...

I would agree, they arent the same! 315 wide ho-hos, aero, power, trans change and trick suspension components vs what looks like a poor and lonely C5. You meanie you! Stop picking on those pooooooor Corvettes!

All joking aside, Newman says Corvettes suck on street tires so I am not sure what motivation there is to put Corvettes in STU. I would LOVE to see the degree and a half of toe in necessary to get those things to put power down on street tires.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

All joking aside, Newman says Corvettes suck on street tires so I am not sure what motivation there is to put Corvettes in STU. I would LOVE to see the degree and a half of toe in necessary to get those things to put power down on street tires.

Yea, I hear that from a lot of Super Stock guys... how much Corvettes suck on street tires.

430 whp + 265mm streets + stick axle with f*cked geometry we can't fix = CRY ME A RIVER, BITCHES.

They seriously have got to stop whining about how hard it is to drive their essentially mid engined cars with vastly superior suspension, weight balance (rear transaxle), and usable grip ... even on street tires.

 

[white86hatch]

Hehehe... figures. Delay the diff cover update long enough and it won't even matter. The all-new IRS Mustang will already be out by the time this update takes effect. A simple seven word rules fix that was 2.5 years in the making! And of course had no bearing on performance whatsoever... so of course they delayed it.

And then there's the "Oh while we're at it, let's just go ahead and slide this C5 into STU also..."

One of these things is not like the other...

Totally off topic here but what's a good starting point for the settings on my whiteline sway bars? If you don't mind giving super secret set up advice that is lol.

 

[sholzer]

Totally off topic here but what's a good starting point for the settings on my whiteline sway bars? If you don't mind giving super secret set up advice that is lol.

FWIW, I'm running my front bar at full stiff and my rear bar at the 2nd stiffest setting with Eibach prokit springs. I think Terry and others are running them a little looser, but they also have a lot more spring rate.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Totally off topic here but what's a good starting point for the settings on my whiteline sway bars? If you don't mind giving super secret set up advice that is lol.

Yea, it totally depends on your spring rates... and course layout, surface, driving style, and many other factors. No way to know the ideal swaybar settings to use without testing.

That being said... full soft on the WL bars is softer than stock and full stiff on them is much stiffer than stock. So if you are on lowering springs (soft) I'd start with sholzer's settings.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

At this point does ANYONE know where the car is classed for next year? IOW, are we going to STU or not?

 

[white86hatch]

FWIW, I'm running my front bar at full stiff and my rear bar at the 2nd stiffest setting with Eibach prokit springs. I think Terry and others are running them a little looser, but they also have a lot more spring rate.

Is that the setting you drive around on the street with?

Yea, it totally depends on your spring rates... and course layout, surface, driving style, and many other factors. No way to know the ideal swaybar settings to use without testing.

That being said... full soft on the WL bars is softer than stock and full stiff on them is much stiffer than stock. So if you are on lowering springs (soft) I'd start with sholzer's settings.

Ok thanks. I'll just play with the settings.

 

[sholzer]

Is that the setting you drive around on the street with?

Yea, I don't bother messing with them just for events. I don't mind a stiffer ride, but I still can't really tell much a difference in ride quality with them at these settings vs softer anyway.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

To clarify -

- The Diff cover stuff is being recommended to the BOD for 1/1/14.
- The STU reclass is still a proposal for 2014. As is the C5. Feedback on both is still useful and appreciated.

 

[modernbeat]

Dave, that's not how it read in FT. If that is the case, can you get the SEB to issue a clarification -RIGHT NOW-? Because people are throwing up their hands and quitting because of this miscommunication.

Also, Mark Andy seemed to confirm that it WAS 2015 for these changes.

 

[csamsh]

Dave, that's not how it read in FT. If that is the case, can you get the SEB to issue a clarification -RIGHT NOW-? Because people are throwing up their hands and quitting because of this miscommunication.

Also, Mark Andy seemed to confirm that it WAS 2015 for these changes.

This x1000? I'm about to give up and run street mod "for fun." Not that I would be nationally competitive anyway, but I like to at least try to follow the rules and place well at regional events.

 

[Whiskey11]

Dave, that's not how it read in FT. If that is the case, can you get the SEB to issue a clarification -RIGHT NOW-? Because people are throwing up their hands and quitting because of this miscommunication.

Also, Mark Andy seemed to confirm that it WAS 2015 for these changes.

Jason, according to the FasTrack, it says
"Proposed 2014 reclassification:
Chevy Camaro (N/A)
Ford Mustang (N/A)
Pontiac Trans Am (N/A)
etc
etc"

so I guess that means all Mustangs etc to STU next year. I knew when I read it the first time I saw that part.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

Dave, that's not how it read in FT. If that is the case, can you get the SEB to issue a clarification -RIGHT NOW-? Because people are throwing up their hands and quitting because of this miscommunication.

Also, Mark Andy seemed to confirm that it WAS 2015 for these changes.

I pinged all of the other SEB folks and they agreed that the FT was formatted poorly and that the stuff under the "Recommended to BOD" section was for 2014, including all the diff cover stuff.

The STU thing seems to stand on it's own, since regardless of the 2015 mentioned up front, the 2014 in the proposal over-rides that.

Where did Mark say otherwise?