School Me: Such thing as too much traction? Yes.

[SRTthis]

well I guess we'll agree to disagree as to how much those principles apply.

just curious... why do you think it wouldnt apply the same?

 

[RedfireV8]

really hard to see in the video...

few questions.
stock converter?
what air pressure?
any videos during the day?

Yes, stock converter.
18psi (275/50-15 ET Streets)
No unfortunately. First time we actually remembered a camera and it wasn't charged enough.

 

[SRTthis]

Yes, stock converter.
18psi (275/50-15 ET Streets)
No unfortunately. First time we actually remembered a camera and it wasn't charged enough.

the stock converter needs to go for sure... more gear would help also

could also try playing with air pressure till it doesnt bog the car down when you see the nose drop like it does right after you leave its bogging the motor down.

 

[ebrow21]

ebrow: Really no gains with the O/R X? Hmm..I was sure it was like a 15hp gain when you remove the cats on these cars. Just a guess but I would guess the Ford Racing tune is probably the cause for no gain. But again that's just a guess.

And thanks for the link!!!

I think the same thing. Not sure what is happening. I will dyno the car again after I put an aftermarket tune on it. More than likely that will happen within the next few weeks.

 

[stkjock]

just curious... why do you think it wouldnt apply the same?

not to many low 12 second street cars that pull the wheels and have issues with "tight" tracks - that's my view on it .

 

[RedfireV8]

the stock converter needs to go for sure... more gear would help also

could also try playing with air pressure till it doesnt bog the car down when you see the nose drop like it does right after you leave its bogging the motor down.

Mk, thanks for that. Looks like the consensus is a converter/gear. I was also thinking of playing with the air pressure too next time I go out. Next time may start at 30psi and work my way down in 5psi increments and see what happens.

I think the same thing. Not sure what is happening. I will dyno the car again after I put an aftermarket tune on it. More than likely that will happen within the next few weeks.

Oh ok very cool. Who you going with if you don't mind? You can PM if ya want.

 

[SRTthis]

not to many low 12 second street cars that pull the wheels and have issues with "tight" tracks - that's my view on it .

actually my street car (junkyard build GT40 combo ported heads and all that) bogs the car down with to much tire... went 12.46@108 friday night. easy to solve in my case it needs more gear or a shorter tire and more tire pressure

 

[86GT351]

try again... the true answer to the question

such thing as to much traction?

is yes....

in his case there are some changes to be made to help him out such as gears and coverter... but a converter is matched to things like cam specs gears power band of the car. while yes you can make tweaks in it to tighten on loosen to get it where you need it you loosen it to much to get it to hit hard it will kill you on the top end. if you tighten it to soften the 60foot youll pick up out the back.

take the race car for example... in the fall on slicks at MIR the car will blow the tires off. and this is on a 28x10.50W. sounds like to little traction right? WRONG! the track actually to tight and drags the front of the car back down and unloads the rear tires. can it be fixed? yes... we need to make adjustments in thinks like air pressure to allow the car to hook less to actually go faster.

so the answer to the question is yes there is a such thing as having to much traction... BUT the OP has things he can change that will allow him to over come his issue he has here since things arent set up correctly

Car can surely have too much traction. Watch an NHRA Pro Stock Car launch. At the initial hit of the throttle you will always see some tire spin. Tire Spin is what generates wheel speed. If there is not sufficient tire spin, the car will theoretically "Bog" down and not improve on times. When it hooks harder like this, then MPH can be lost also.

Automatic car need a Convertor and more than stock rear gear for optimum performance.

 

[SRTthis]

Car can surely have too much traction. Watch an NHRA Pro Stock Car launch. At the initial hit of the throttle you will always see some tire spin. Tire Spin is what generates wheel speed. If there is not sufficient tire spin, the car will theoretically "Bog" down and not improve on times. When it hooks harder like this, then MPH can be lost also.

Automatic car need a Convertor and more than stock rear gear for optimum performance.

DING DING DING! the key to all this is wheel speed!

 

[TheRookie65]

Dumb question..... Was traction control turned off? I mean all the way off?

 

[RedfireV8]

^Not a dumb question at all. TC was off. 1 press of the button. I remember trying all 3 settings (TC off, Sport Mode and AdvanceTrac off) in the past and TC off worked best for me. That was a long time ago and I only tested them once. That's another thing I can also try at the next outing.

 

[TheRookie65]

I had the same thing happen.... I have MT ET streets that I tried and ran a slower time and 60 ft. What I should have done is turned advance trac off reved to about 1000 rpm then let it rip and let the MT's do their job, but right at that time there were some vids out on the 3.7 V6 blowing the drive shaft and never made it back to the track...... If you turn advance track off you're in the mid 12's easy.....

 

[808muscle]

Car can surely have too much traction. Watch an NHRA Pro Stock Car launch. At the initial hit of the throttle you will always see some tire spin. Tire Spin is what generates wheel speed. If there is not sufficient tire spin, the car will theoretically "Bog" down and not improve on times. When it hooks harder like this, then MPH can be lost also.

Automatic car need a Convertor and more than stock rear gear for optimum performance.

I gotta agree with this. I just had a truetrac installed went to the track and my 60fts were worse. I have always run my ET streets at 30psi and would sixty in the low 1.9 to high 1.8's. Best I could do was 2.0. I then lowered it to 27 psi and got a 2.15 WTF I was pissed. I think I had too much grip and with the stock convertor the car was bogging. I am gonna raise psi to 31 or 32 next time. Lowering it slowed me down.

 

[SRTthis]

I gotta agree with this. I just had a truetrac installed went to the track and my 60fts were worse. I have always run my ET streets at 30psi and would sixty in the low 1.9 to high 1.8's. Best I could do was 2.0. I then lowered it to 27 psi and got a 2.15 WTF I was pissed. I think I had too much grip and with the stock convertor the car was bogging. I am gonna raise psi to 31 or 32 next time. Lowering it slowed me down.

Hey look a low 12sec car proving my point...

 

[RedfireV8]

^Lol hey now, keep it civil guys. But really thank you guys for your experiences and help. This is exactly what I was looking for. At first I thought I would be seen as a moron for asking but I sure am learning a lot. Definitely have a good idea on what to try the next time I go out.

 

[kdanner]

The easy way to prove this is to footbrake against your converter high enough that it starts spinning before you even leave the starting line. I bet it runs quicker, that worked for everyone else.

 

[psfracer]

And yes, the best thing you can do to an auto car is converter, gear, and tire.

Like I said earlier---with an auto its about converter, gear, and using the right tire. If you are using the right combo, then your quickest ETs will be dead hooking. If you need wheel speed out of the hole, your converter is too tight or you are running too tall of a tire. This--assuming everything else is equal such as good track conditions, etc.

Here is a video of what I mean. Back in 2009, I could go 10.5Xs at only 126 mph. I think the car was working great out of the hole, and the car 60' the best with either leaving at idle (flashing the converter) or raising the rpm just enough to preload the suspension. 577 rwhp @3600lbs. Video has outside and inside view with sound, so you can hear and see exactly how the car would leave and what I was doing with the converter.

Combo was the tried and true 4.10s / 28 tall tire / PI 3200 stall

[SFIRE]street-driven-whipple-mustang-10544-12612-mph_209626[/SFIRE]

The thing is, it will depend on the cars setup and the tire. A Pro Stock car can spin a little out of the hole because they are running a 33X16 tire which can recover very quickly vs a drag radial. Apple to oranges in my opinion.

 

[SRTthis]

Like I said earlier---with an auto its about converter, gear, and using the right tire. If you are using the right combo, then your quickest ETs will be dead hooking. If you need wheel speed out of the hole, your converter is too tight or you are running too tall of a tire. This--assuming everything else is equal such as good track conditions, etc.

Here is a video of what I mean. Back in 2009, I could go 10.5Xs at only 126 mph. I think the car was working great out of the hole, and the car 60' the best with either leaving at idle (flashing the converter) or raising the rpm just enough to preload the suspension. 577 rwhp @3600lbs. Video has outside and inside view with sound, so you can hear and see exactly how the car would leave and what I was doing with the converter.

Combo was the tried and true 4.10s / 28 tall tire / PI 3200 stall

[SFIRE]street-driven-whipple-mustang-10544-12612-mph_209626[/SFIRE]

The thing is, it will depend on the cars setup and the tire. A Pro Stock car can spin a little out of the hole because they are running a 33X16 tire which can recover very quickly vs a drag radial. Apple to oranges in my opinion.

Radials from what I've seen wont recover anywhere like a slick pretty much always black tracking if we are in the groove if we get out of it on radials it's up in smoke... Slicks would haze and walk its self back in. But we can drag the motor down even with the power we make. We still need wheel speed like everyone else we just have to manage it more then a slick car...

 

[psfracer]

Exactly---with a DR its a whole different ball game vs slicks. But you already know that. The video above was M&H drag radials.

 

[SRTthis]

Exactly---with a DR its a whole different ball game vs slicks. But you already know that. The video above was M&H drag radials.

Yup... We struggled most of the end of last season and early this season doing big wheelies... Doing what we knew worked on slicks... Didn't work on radials. We had a fine line between up on the bumper in the 330 and up in smoke.

I'm not seeing any video but I am posting from my phone