Somewhat Overheating on Road Courses

[ddd4114]

Has anybody had problems with their engine getting hot during track days, road racing, etc.? The only modifications to my car (a 2011 GT) are brakes and tires, and I'm already seeing uncomfortably high temperatures on track. On the street, everything is fine.

I did a lapping day at Nelson Ledges last weekend, and I recorded data during all of my sessions. The ambient temperature was in the 70's, and the track is about 290' above sea level. I noticed that about 10 min into each session, my coolant temperature (from the OEM sensor) would stay at ~225 degC, and my oil temperature (at the drain plug) would be at ~290 degF. At its highest, I saw my coolant temperature get to 230 degF, and my oil got to 300 degF. I'm ASSuming the OEM ECT sensor is accurate to within 5 degF, and I'm pretty sure my oil temperature accuracy is about the same. I'll double-check the calibration next time I change the oil... which probably should be soon.

Since I'm running full synthetic oil, I'm not freaking out too much, but I know the oil pressure is definitely going to be pretty low. The bearings are probably taking quite a beating. It might be good to switch to 5w30 instead of Ford's "recommended" 0w20 as a band-aid fix.

I'm most likely going to install the Boss oil-to-coolant oil cooler, which should hopefully be good for 10-20 degF lower oil temperatures. However, without upgrading the radiator, I'm not sure how to keep the coolant temperature in check. 230 degF isn't terrible, but I'm probably getting some cavitation near redline.

Has anybody used a higher pressure radiator cap for a 5.0 that's seen road racing? I'd rather not stress the cooling system more than necessary, and increasing the relief pressure significantly can be a little risky when things start getting hot. A 1.3 bar cap is probably fine, but I'd rather go higher if reliability isn't compromised. Whatever I can do to mitigate caviation will help.

Aside from a radiator upgrade, improving airflow through the radiator is basically a free lunch, but I'd rather avoid having a gaudy looking car, and a GT500-style hood with matching paint probably will not be cheap.

Any thoughts? I'd of course rather keep the cost down, but obviously protecting the engine is my first priority. Not doing track days anymore is the clear answer, but that's just not going to happen...

Thanks,

Dan

 

[texasmustang65]

We are seeing the same problems on the Boss. I added the 302s grille for more airflow. There are a few places making an air oil cooler that is supposed to help as well. It seems the extra heat from the oil is overtaxing the cooling. but they are a bit expensive.

 

[JAJ]

Your insanely complicated Copperhead ECU will reduce power if the engine gets too hot. Don't worry about overheating.

That said, if you want to cool the engine down a bit, install the Boss oil cooler. If that's still hotter than you want, then install the Boss 302S grill to add more airflow. If that's still too hot, install the Ford Racing radiator M-8005-MGT. If that's still too hot, then add the Ford Racing M-6642-MBA external oil-to-air cooler. If that's still too hot, then buy a Ford Racing Boss 302S race car.

 

[Napoleon85]

Is anyone running road courses on e85 or water/meth injection? If so, has it had any effect on overall temps at the track?

 

[DUFUS]

Count me as another one who has seen 300 degree oil temps. Disconcerting. I've now installed the boss oil cooler and will be HPDE'ing this coming Mon & Tue, so we'll see what impact that has. I haven't been able to monitor ECT (other than with the factory "gauge") because I can't get into the engineering test mode to see the actual digital readout because of TPMS alert (track tires don't have the sensors). If anyone knows how to get around this, let me know. I suppose if we're not going into limp mode then things are relatively OK, at least we're not in immediate danger. I've gone to 5W30, and may go 40 from here. I've also added some distilled water vs. 50/50 coolant after adding the oil cooler, so I got that going for me, if that makes a difference. I figure if a track isn't "extreme conditions" that warrants 60/40, what is? WRT a hood with some heat extraction capability, I love the Tiger Racing hood, and also just stumbled upon this GT500-like option:
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-q-series-hood.html
Not sure if either one would make a substantial difference in temps, so in my mind I'd have to legitimize spending the $ as an appearance mod. I could probably do that with the Tiger hood, I love that thing, maybe not the Steeda.
If anyone has feedback on either, I'd appreciate it.

 

[RI_2011_GT]

Count me as another one who has seen 300 degree oil temps. Disconcerting. I've now installed the boss oil cooler and will be HPDE'ing this coming Mon & Tue, so we'll see what impact that has. I haven't been able to monitor ECT (other than with the factory "gauge") because I can't get into the engineering test mode to see the actual digital readout because of TPMS alert (track tires don't have the sensors). If anyone knows how to get around this, let me know. I suppose if we're not going into limp mode then things are relatively OK, at least we're not in immediate danger. I've gone to 5W30, and may go 40 from here. I've also added some distilled water vs. 50/50 coolant after adding the oil cooler, so I got that going for me, if that makes a difference. I figure if a track isn't "extreme conditions" that warrants 60/40, what is? WRT a hood with some heat extraction capability, I love the Tiger Racing hood, and also just stumbled upon this GT500-like option:
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-q-series-hood.html
Not sure if either one would make a substantial difference in temps, so in my mind I'd have to legitimize spending the $ as an appearance mod. I could probably do that with the Tiger hood, I love that thing, maybe not the Steeda.
If anyone has feedback on either, I'd appreciate it.

Tiger Hood will help with cooling and preventing the car from lifting up. Also ditch the factory grill and get a Saleen or Roush for added air flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Gr40fdYmd2I

 

[kevinatfms]

box the radiator in, its cheap and effective at getting the most from the stock radiator. you can get cheap thin sheets of delrin to use and its easily drilled into and can withstand a good amount of heat before becoming "soft".

also, check into venting the hood or buying the tiger racing hood. im in process of adding 90' turbo grand prix hood louvers to my 05 car due to oil/coolant temps on track.

 

[Napoleon85]

Where can you find these Tiger Racing hoods? Google searches are only coming back with motorcycle parts and pictures of cars that have them installed.

 

[a50cobra]

Where can you find these Tiger Racing hoods? Google searches are only coming back with motorcycle parts and pictures of cars that have them installed.

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51070

 

[roboworm]

Just last week I finally went into limp mode at Willow Springs. The ambient air temp was close to 100F. My aeroforce gauge had the water temp at 245F which is when the temp gauge pegs, I don't have an oil temp. I've had the temp light come on before but no limp mode. The limp mode cut power but I was able to safely get off the track, after about 5 minutes, I was back on for a few more laps. I had to restart the car to disable limp mode and then disable TCS.

Does anyone know if racing in 100F temps is realistic, or is it time to go to the beach? Seems like a larger radiator, oil cooler, and vented hood would be to most cost effective. Does anyone know what removing the hood would do in these conditions???

 

[RI_2011_GT]

Talk to Paul Brown from Tiger Racing. They build the hoods for Ford and race the mustang with the hood...

 

[speedform]

I have a track event this Monday and as a temporary stop-gap, pull the factory fogs for more airflow. We'll see how that goes. Couldn't hurt I guess.

 

[VTXFrank]

Going from the stock grille to the Saleen grille, I saw an average 8° temp drop driving my car hard down here in Florida with 98° ambient temps and 90% humidity. Also, the GTCS lower fascia allows more air flow IMO. But I didn't check the temps like I did with the upper grille.

 

[Sky Render]

That said, if you want to cool the engine down a bit, install the Boss oil cooler.

Disagree. The BOSS oil cooler uses engine coolant to cool the oil, thus putting an even higher thermal load on the stock radiator. Install an external oil cooler if you're already having problems with overheating.

 

[kevinatfms]

^ bingo, you can use a power steering or transmission cooler as a replacement mounted in the front grille or lower grille and i believe Jegs has them with braided lines for cheap.

EDIT: check this one out
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15501/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/13212/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flex-a-lite/400/3951/10002/-1

 

[Jefro]

Kevin; when installing that cooler, would you want to have it mounted to where the lines slope towards the engine a bit so when you drain the oil it also drains the cooler?

 

[Sky Render]

Kevin; when installing that cooler, would you want to have it mounted to where the lines slope towards the engine a bit so when you drain the oil it also drains the cooler?

Yes. If this isn't possible, just disconnect the cooler lines when changing the oil to drain them. Also, you will be able to fit more oil into the crankcase because the cooler and lines will hold an additional half quart or so.

 

[ddd4114]

Thanks for the replies so far.

The Boss oil-to-coolant oil cooler is pretty cheap, so I'll probably install one of those. However, as mentioned, that will just add more heat into the coolant, so I'll need to deal with that. For now, I'm going to try one of the Saleen/Roush grilles and see what happens. I'm also going to start using 5w30 instead of 0w20.

My next event will probably be VIR in mid-July, so I have plenty of time to think of other (affordable) things to try.

 

[B2B]

If you still have the OEM GT grill with the fog light, shine a flashlight in there so you can see how little of the grill is actually open. Switching to a Roush or Saleen grill should be almost mandatory for any car that will be seeing track duty.

FC

 

[bullitt6019]

Glad I saw this post...I put my factory grill back on for show season, but after reading this, will be putting the Saleen back on as I will be running at Hallett in Tulsa next weekend.....Thanks for the posts!